---+ #twiki_marketing log of 2008-11-03

[10:48am] OliverKrueger joined the chat room.
[11:42am] Rich_Morin joined the chat room.
[12:01pm]  vlbwork joined the chat room.
[12:01pm]  vlbwork is now known as VickiBrown.
[12:03pm]  uebera|| is now known as uebera||afk.
[12:09pm] peterthoeny:hi andre, rich, sven (here?) markus, vicki
[12:09pm] peterthoeny:sorry for the delay
[12:10pm] Rich_Morin:hi
[12:10pm]  peterthoeny changed the topic to
          "http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiMarketingMeeting2008x11x03".
[12:10pm] peterthoeny:who is actually at the keyboard?
[12:11pm]  ms- joined the chat room.
[12:12pm] peterthoeny:hi michael
[12:12pm] ms-:Hi Peter
[12:12pm] ms-:(just curious  )
[12:12pm] VickiBrown:me
[12:12pm] SvenDowideit:me - those forkers got me up at 4am!
[12:13pm] peterthoeny:vicki, thanks for attending, i know you are busy with meetings at work
[12:13pm] peterthoeny:ah, long time no see sven on #twiki_marketing
[12:14pm] peterthoeny:i won't go into politics in today's meeting
[12:15pm] peterthoeny:however, i will post a personal statement shortly on twiki.org
[12:15pm] ms-:Good - I'm sick of hearing about the election you've got on out there
[12:15pm] peterthoeny:yea, tomorrow tue is the big day
[12:16pm]  AndreU left the chat room.
[12:16pm] peterthoeny:glad the us elections are over soon
[12:16pm] SvenDowideit:yay for palin porn?
[12:16pm] ms-:sorry, I'll be quiet, I am just curious, but in all matters, non-partisan
[12:16pm] VickiBrown:I'm sick of hearing about the election and I'm in the US
[12:18pm] peterthoeny:i am not a us citizen but i decided long time ago who i would vote
          for (unstated here, but many would guess correctly)
[12:18pm] peterthoeny:ok, back to meeting
[12:18pm] peterthoeny:who is facilitating, who is taking notes?
[12:19pm] peterthoeny:i can facilitate
[12:19pm] peterthoeny:proposed agenda:
[12:19pm] peterthoeny:# 0. Brainstorming on Marketing Refocus
[12:19pm] peterthoeny:# 1. Usability & Home Page Redesign
[12:19pm] peterthoeny:# 2. Blogging
[12:19pm] peterthoeny:# 3. TWiki Meet-ups
[12:19pm] peterthoeny:# 4. Merchandising
[12:19pm] peterthoeny:# 5. Brainstorming for Ideas
[12:20pm] peterthoeny:anything else to put on today's marketing agenda?
[12:23pm] peterthoeny:---++ 0. Brainstorming on Marketing Refocus
[12:23pm] Rich_Morin:How about giving us a precis of what the refocus is intended to accomplish
[12:23pm] peterthoeny:so far we have been working on 1-4 with slow progress each
[12:24pm] peterthoeny:we have been a small team and now temporarily we are an even smaller team
          on marketing
[12:25pm] peterthoeny:refocus is may be not the right word, may be better prioritize work to
          be done
[12:25pm] peterthoeny:and may be add one more item: press and blogosphere
[12:26pm] peterthoeny:the current 2. blogging is focused on twiki.org blog and newsletter
[12:26pm] peterthoeny:may be expand that one to include press and blogosphere or add a new
          item for that
[12:26pm] peterthoeny:two questions:
[12:27pm] peterthoeny:1. what priority do you see on existing items?
[12:27pm] peterthoeny:2. do you see press and blogosphere important?
[12:28pm] Rich_Morin:I'd like to spend a minute talking about the elephant in the room, as I
          think it affects everything else.
[12:29pm] peterthoeny:go ahead
[12:30pm] Rich_Morin:From a user's perspective, TWiki and Nextwiki are (initially) going to
          be very similar, though they may diverge over time.  So, the question is whether,
          like the various flavors of Ruby interpreters have, a single community can be
          large enough to hold both.
[12:31pm] Rich_Morin:If I find that I can't talk about Nextwiki issues at a TWiki meetup, I
          lose some value in going, etc.
[12:32pm] peterthoeny:i personally welcome contributions that are constructive for both 
          communities, e.g foster sharing of code
[12:33pm] Rich_Morin:I don't claim to understand all the issues involved (and I've read a bit
          more than most *wiki users will).  I think most users would be happy to see
          cooperation, where possible.
[12:33pm] peterthoeny:i do not welcome extreme views that divide the communities
[12:33pm] peterthoeny:agreed
[12:35pm] peterthoeny:on not constructive items: relentless pr on twiki.org channels for the
          fork (deja vue a few years back); extreme view on plugin maintenance (see
          discussions in [twiki-dev])
[12:36pm] SvenDowideit:on that
[12:36pm] SvenDowideit:if you goto the gpl web site
[12:36pm] SvenDowideit:there is an faq
[12:36pm] peterthoeny:http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/TWiki/TWikiCodeOfConduct spells out how
          the twiki.org community can work together
[12:37pm] SvenDowideit:it implies (to me) that the main copyright owner has 'moral rights'
          to the name they choose
[12:37pm] peterthoeny:without much friction
[12:37pm] SvenDowideit:which means _if_ that person requests another to change the name
[12:37pm] SvenDowideit:it should be done
[12:37pm] SvenDowideit:thats not extreme, thats respectful
[12:38pm] SvenDowideit:in the same way as the forkers saw it as a foregone conclusion that
          you would request a name change
[12:38pm] peterthoeny:sven: i will post a reply shortly on that question
[12:38pm] SvenDowideit:even if you hadn't tm'd
[12:38pm] SvenDowideit:cool
[12:38pm] SvenDowideit:the discussion didn't go productive so far
[12:39pm] Rich_Morin:Is there any chance that a joint statement can be crafted that will
          reassure the user community a bit?  I'd hate to see this push more folks to MW...
[12:39pm] SvenDowideit:atm, i think the forkers are not likely to want to, but its worth
          asking ( Rich_Morin are you willing to drive that?)
[12:39pm] ms-:peterthoeny: I'm only here as a friend. (to everyone on the channel) Please
          do not confuse the issues you have today with the argument you and I had a few
          years ago
[12:40pm] peterthoeny:rich: i like the idea of a joint statement
[12:40pm] ms-:Fundamentally the reason my fork did not go anywhere is as stated - a) the
          community was held together in one place b) I abandoned the codebase in disgust
[12:40pm] ms-:So I moved on.
[12:41pm] ms-:I am specifically hanging around to encourage people /not/ to fight each other
[12:41pm] ms-:since that would hurt all of you
[12:41pm] Rich_Morin:I am not sure how I would drive such an effort, but I'm willing to try.
          Who should I be talking with?
[12:41pm] peterthoeny:probably best worked out by someone in the fork with some neutrality ,
          such as kenneth
[12:42pm] SvenDowideit:y, certainly not me, i'm still not in a balanced frame
[12:43pm] Rich_Morin:OK, how about this.  Peter and Sven, send me email (CCing to anyone
          you want), introducing me and asking that folks send me their thoughts.
[12:44pm] SvenDowideit:OK
[12:44pm] Rich_Morin:I can set up a quiet corner to discuss matters, if everyone plays nicely...
[12:44pm] peterthoeny:we can give it a try
[12:44pm] peterthoeny:back to marketing refocus/prio
[12:44pm] Rich_Morin:OK, back to the agenda?
[12:44pm] Rich_Morin:
[12:45pm] peterthoeny:any thoughts on the two questions i opened earlier?
[12:48pm] peterthoeny:my personal view:
[12:48pm] peterthoeny:1. focus on website content
[12:49pm] peterthoeny:2. start engage press and blogosphere
[12:50pm] peterthoeny:especially on 1, we can make a difference in a short time
[12:51pm] peterthoeny:last week i started with what arthur prepared: i created the
          whatistwiki page in the twiki web, http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/TWiki/WhatIsTWiki
[12:52pm] Rich_Morin:The food chain starts with "official" materials (eg, web pages,
          press releases) and "unofficial" materials (eg, IRC logs). The bloggers pull
          from both; the press mostly pulls from official materials and bloggers
[12:52pm] peterthoeny:yes, that is a good point
[12:53pm] Rich_Morin:Both tend to be "event-driven".  Just telling folks about existing
          features isn't "news".
[12:53pm] peterthoeny:do official press releases for major events
[12:54pm] Rich_Morin:So, whenever an event happens, there is a window of opportunity for
          getting a message out.  FYI, most press releases are discarded (eg, why do I care
          that Foocorp has a new VP?)
[12:54pm] peterthoeny:yes, the fork was newsworthy, and the forkers took that opportunity
          (imho skewed heavily in a one sided view)
[12:55pm] Rich_Morin:Well, you can't control what others say about you; you can only control
          what you say.
[12:55pm] ms-:All views in such a scenario are one sided. It took me a few years to see your
          point of view when we had our little conflab.
[12:55pm] ms-:It's extremely hard to keep calm when someone slams a door in your face.
[12:56pm] SvenDowideit:y - tahts why i've not done anything on t.o yet - waiting for calm
[12:56pm] SvenDowideit:then for thinking
[12:56pm] ms-:(which is how the logs from the twiki_release meeting read to me - in terms of
          how people feel)
[12:56pm] ms-:I also realise that you probably feel betrayed btw peter
[12:57pm] ms-:but that also cuts both ways sadly - I don't like seeing friends quarrel
[12:57pm] peterthoeny:i have no comments on topic
[12:57pm] ms-:I'll be quiet then
[12:57pm] ms-:(apologies)
[12:58pm] ms-:(fwiw, I am actually curious to hear your side since I've heard the other side)
[12:58pm] peterthoeny:back on priorities: it would be cool if we make headway on the work
          arthur started
[12:58pm] peterthoeny:e.g create the about page and other landing pages in the twiki web
[12:59pm] peterthoeny:then change the twiki.org homepage to point to those landing pages
[1:00pm] peterthoeny:basically with arthur's original mission to make the site more accessible
         to non-geeks
[1:00pm] peterthoeny:e.g. to the personas we identified
[1:00pm] peterthoeny:time check: +60 min
[1:00pm] peterthoeny:i need to sign off in 15 min
[1:01pm]  uebera||afk is now known as uebera||.
[1:01pm] peterthoeny:any comment on the website redesign?
[1:01pm] peterthoeny:e.g. landing pages?
[1:04pm] peterthoeny:i guess that was it on 1. Usability & Home Page Redesign
[1:04pm] peterthoeny:---++ 2. Blogging
[1:04pm] peterthoeny:thanks vicki for sending out the newsletter
[1:04pm] peterthoeny:it would be good to have some technical how-to articles in the next few
         weeks
[1:05pm] peterthoeny:that helps heal and bring the community together
[1:07pm] peterthoeny:anything on blogging?
[1:08pm] peterthoeny:i don't have anything on 3. TWiki Meet-ups, and 4. Merchandising
[1:08pm] peterthoeny:any coments on those two items?
[1:08pm] Rich_Morin:What would it take to do a Twiki Meetup in SV?
[1:09pm] peterthoeny:i think it is time soon
[1:09pm] Rich_Morin:Only real problem is that we're heading into the party season. Of course,
         it could be a social event.
[1:10pm] peterthoeny:last time we said before end of the year
[1:10pm] peterthoeny:how about late nov or begin dec?
[1:10pm] Rich_Morin:I'd suggest early Dec, to avoid TG
[1:10pm] peterthoeny:tg?
[1:11pm] ms-:thanksgiving
[1:11pm] peterthoeny:ok
[1:11pm] peterthoeny:i'll take a to-do item to organize an event
[1:11pm] Rich_Morin:How about a Sunday afternoon gathering, with noshes.
[1:11pm] peterthoeny:more social that informative
[1:11pm] peterthoeny:noshes?
[1:12pm] Rich_Morin:snacks, roughly
[1:13pm] peterthoeny:ah, got it, googled and found that it has jewish origin
[1:13pm] peterthoeny:sounds good
[1:13pm] peterthoeny:do you want to suggest a day?
[1:15pm] peterthoeny:11/23, 11/30, 12/07, 12/14
[1:15pm] Rich_Morin:Dec 7th or 14th? - Check with your venue to see what's available
[1:15pm] peterthoeny:ok, let's target one of those two dec dates
[1:16pm] peterthoeny:it's +75 min
[1:16pm] peterthoeny:i need to sign off now
[1:16pm] Rich_Morin:And get an announcement out a few weeks before.
[1:16pm] peterthoeny:yes
[1:16pm] peterthoeny:if you wish continue with brainstorming
[1:16pm] Rich_Morin:ok, cu
[1:16pm] peterthoeny:thanks all
[1:17pm] peterthoeny:ps: i see all this also as an opportunity for a fresh start