[12:03]
peterthoeny: hmm, twiki.org is very slow right now
peterthoeny: let me check...
peterthoeny: load is 11, very high
peterthoeny: give me a minute...
MartinSeibert: Who can edit this page?
MartinSeibert:  http://www.twiki.org
[12:08]
MartinSeibert: This change has to be done: http://screens.seibert-media.net/mseibert/2008-08-11_2107.png
peterthoeny: ok, offending ip address is now on the deny list
peterthoeny: should be better in a minute or so
peterthoeny: martin, as i mentioned yesterday i will do that
peterthoeny: i was busy yesterday with the 4.2.2 release
peterthoeny: one thing at a time :-)
MartinSeibert: Our developer told me that TWiki 4.2.1 had a severe bug with user auth ...
[12:11]
peterthoeny: martin, what is the reason for the hurry?
MartinSeibert: They said TWiki 4.2.2 was needed because the old release did not work properly.
MartinSeibert: Is that correct?
MartinSeibert: Peter: Things that are outdated decrease the credibility of a website significantly.
peterthoeny: 4.2.1 had an issue with e-mail verification at time of subscription
peterthoeny: this is fixed in 4.2.2
peterthoeny: who is facilitating today, who is taking notes?
MartinSeibert: Who is there at all?
MartinSeibert: Peter: Will you facilitate?
peterthoeny: yes i can
[12:15]
peterthoeny: who is taking notes?
peterthoeny: martin?
MartinSeibert: Yes, I can do it.
peterthoeny: thanks martin
peterthoeny: proposed agenda:
peterthoeny: # 1. Usability & Home Page Redesign
peterthoeny: # 2. Blogging
peterthoeny: # 3. TWiki Meet-ups
peterthoeny: # 4. Merchandising
peterthoeny: # 5. Brainstorming for ideas
peterthoeny: # 6. TWiki.org Server
peterthoeny: any other items?
[12:16]
MartinSeibert: Survey.
MartinSeibert: I would talk about a survey within the twiki-community.
MartinSeibert: See here: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiOrganization#Tasks_and_elements
MartinSeibert: First element.
MartinSeibert: It would be great to have 5 minutes on that.
peterthoeny: ok
[12:17]
peterthoeny: # 1. Usability & Home Page Redesign
peterthoeny: # 2. Blogging
peterthoeny: # 3. TWiki Meet-ups
peterthoeny: # 4. Merchandising
peterthoeny: # 5. TWiki.org Server
peterthoeny: # 6. TWiki community survey
peterthoeny: # 7. Brainstorming for ideas
MartinSeibert: perfect for me.
MartinSeibert: Are we two alone?
MartinSeibert: Anybody else present?
VickiBrown: I'm here
Soronthar: lurkin mode, but watching
[12:19]
peterthoeny: AndreU, here?
peterthoeny: OliverKrueger: here?
MartinSeibert: Okay. Documented present people in the notes.
MartinSeibert: Let's go on.
peterthoeny: ---++ 1. Usability & Home Page Redesign
MartinSeibert: I like the designs that were put up lately.
peterthoeny: arthur is now working in germany, and has limited internet access
MartinSeibert: Who will code the HTML-templates?
[12:21]
peterthoeny: arthur is asking for feedback if he is on track
MartinSeibert: The whole thing is to big for me at the moment. I do not have enough time to dig in thoroughly. Thus I cannot give a reasonable feedback. Sorry.
peterthoeny: i also wish i had more time to to work on this important part of the twiki project
peterthoeny: it is the most visible part of twiki.org
Soronthar: what is the topic? I lost it
MartinSeibert: Peter: Our homepage sucks.
peterthoeny: thanks for the compliment ;-)
MartinSeibert: We desperately need a new and light design.
peterthoeny: it is optimized for seo, could be better for human consumption
MartinSeibert: Peter: I am trying to keep things low most of the time. :-)
[12:25]
MartinSeibert: twiki.org is far away from being optimized for seo.
VickiBrown: (back in 5 min)
MartinSeibert: Looking at the complete website, we have a severe problem that our pages are not indexed correctly.
MartinSeibert: Why does http://www.google.com/search?q=twikiorganization not bring up http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiOrganization?
MartinSeibert: We have a big problem here. :-(
peterthoeny: i think the current participants on this meeting is not representative to give good feedback to arthur, but we can spend a few minutes brainstorming
peterthoeny: google picks up twiki.org changes very quickly
MartinSeibert: I talked to Michael Daum and Carlo Schulz. We planned to build a very small marketing website for the German Twiki-Community.
Soronthar: Peter, I think that we should bring this up in a "release meeting"... for some reason, those receive more attention
MartinSeibert: Nothing to be edited a lot. Rather for marketing managers and ceos.
[12:29]
MartinSeibert: This could be a way to use Arthur's layouts.
peterthoeny: martin: what about creating a number of webpages on twiki.org for the german audience?
MartinSeibert: Peter: I want it to be a showcase. Also for twiki.org.
VickiBrown: (back)
peterthoeny: i think it would make sense to create customer facing content in the twiki web on twiki.org
Soronthar: What is the topic with Arthur;s proposal?
MartinSeibert: In TWiki.org Carlo, Michael and I have to take care of not messing up things.
MartinSeibert: I just want a light small marketing page. Every deeplink will go to twiki.org.
MartinSeibert: That is at least what I have in mind.
MartinSeibert: Soronthar: I feel incapable of answering Arthurs questions.
[12:32]
MartinSeibert: Peter: Do you have provisos against a German marketing page?
peterthoeny: i am concerned that a separate website will defocus the project
peterthoeny: therefore i think it is better for the project to have targeted content on twiki.org
peterthoeny: but with the right navigation structure
Soronthar: what about a new web for that?
Soronthar: (speaking about MartinSeibert site)
peterthoeny: yes, a new web would be an option
MartinSeibert: Peter: Do you remember our discussion on German weblogs?
MartinSeibert: Somebody just deleted a German press release I posted about 4.2.1
MartinSeibert: I don't blame it.
[12:35]
peterthoeny: deleted where?
MartinSeibert: But it shows, that a separation is wanted.
MartinSeibert: From the Blog web.
peterthoeny: ah
MartinSeibert: I do not care, where the site is hosted.
MartinSeibert: But the servers have to be decently fast.
peterthoeny: if there is a need it would make sense to create a new web on twiki.org for the german community
MartinSeibert: You can have root access for whatever we create. That is no problem.
peterthoeny: martin: how about creating a proposal in the codev web?
MartinSeibert: Peter: Okay. I will do that.
[12:36]
peterthoeny: ok
peterthoeny: that way you could get your own german blog
MartinSeibert: Just to state my goals here: I just want to attract more business from Germany. That's all.
peterthoeny: on speed, let's address that in the relevant agenda item
MartinSeibert: Everything that can foster this is highly welcom.
peterthoeny: yes
MartinSeibert: welcome
Soronthar: I need to go. I just wanted to point out that is not easy to find the topic with the proposal, and that the stale_content tag is one of the biggest tags in Codev (and growing)... see you later...
VickiBrown: Martin - your entry wasn't deleted. It's still in Draft Status
peterthoeny: ok, thanks rafael for showing up
[12:38]
peterthoeny: ttyl
peterthoeny: ---++ 2. Blogging
VickiBrown: Hi!
VickiBrown: Martin's entry i in Draft :)
VickiBrown: Shall I publish?
peterthoeny: i will be away for a few min, sorry!
MartinSeibert: Vickie: No need to talk about 4.2.1 in German when 4.2.2 is out, huh? :-)
VickiBrown: ok. Perhaps you should edit it a little for 4.2.2.?
VickiBrown:    http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Blog/BlogEntry200808x4  
[12:39]
MartinSeibert: Vicki: I believe it was reverted to "draft".
VickiBrown: ah
VickiBrown: well, that's better than deleting
VickiBrown: I would hope no one would delete without a comment
MartinSeibert: Never mind. I will just keep the German content here: http://blog.seibert-media.net/2008/08/arbeitstechniken/performance-und-stabilitat-der-twiki-patch-421-ist-verfugbar/
VickiBrown: if you want to delete the blog draft, ...
VickiBrown: I think you should do that :)
peterthoeny: ...back
MartinSeibert: for the first topic, I take down:
MartinSeibert: 1. MartinSeibert: Create a proposal for German TWiki Marketing Website
[12:43]
peterthoeny: vicki: arthur posted a question at http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiMarketingMeeting2008x08x11#2_Blogging
VickiBrown: I saw.
VickiBrown: I responded with my reasons.
peterthoeny: i think the long name was done for seo
MartinSeibert: Yeah.
VickiBrown: don't search engines search <title>?
MartinSeibert: Yes. And URI.
VickiBrown: title contains all of the words (with spaces)
peterthoeny: they take title, heading, url, keywords meta, description meta and page content into account
VickiBrown: given that most URLs onthe web are not highhly correlated to the actual content...
[12:45]
VickiBrown: I would think title would be more useful than URL
MartinSeibert: A descriptive URI would be good.
VickiBrown: but as soon as the page title changes, it's wrong
VickiBrown: (I'm arguing. I dislike supposed descriptive URIs)
VickiBrown:        :(     
peterthoeny: i am fine either way
MartinSeibert: So am I. It's not the optimum. But it's okay.
VickiBrown: I'll happily give the TWiki Champion role to anyone who wants to change the URI names :) :) :) :)
MartinSeibert: You are all set. :-)
[12:48]
MartinSeibert: We are on your side now. :-)
peterthoeny: if to change, then it should be sortable, e.g. with date in uri
VickiBrown: is it possible to set <meta> html tagsin TWiki?
VickiBrown: (date is in UI now :)
MartinSeibert: Time check: +48mins
MartinSeibert: Let's move on.
peterthoeny: meta control: there is a meta pref setting
VickiBrown: can you send a pointer offline?
peterthoeny: that could be done better, e.g. a pref setting for meta description and one for meta keywords
[12:50]
peterthoeny: ok
VickiBrown: maybe I could add more SEO w/o affecting URI (adding action item)
peterthoeny: ---++ 4. Merchandising
peterthoeny: we do not have a champion at this time
peterthoeny: there is not much work involved
peterthoeny: basically some tlc to get meet-ups going
peterthoeny: anyone interested?
MartinSeibert: I am not a friend of merchandising.
peterthoeny: sorry, i got the wrong agenda item :-)
MartinSeibert: I like online-advertising. :-)
[12:52]
peterthoeny: i was talking about:
peterthoeny: ---++ 3. TWiki Meet-ups
peterthoeny: there we need a champion
peterthoeny: we are set on merchandising: will norris is driving this
peterthoeny: he came up with a good t-shirt design
MartinSeibert: I will apply for champion on the TWiki community survey. :-)
peterthoeny: action item for me: reply to will's t-shirt proposal
MartinSeibert: 2. Main.PeterThoeny: Reply to will's t-shirt proposal.
peterthoeny: ok, champion for twiki meet-ups remains open
MartinSeibert: So it is.
[12:54]
peterthoeny: ---++ 5. TWiki.org Server
MartinSeibert: That is interesting.
peterthoeny: we ordered the x86 server from sun 3 weeks ago or so
peterthoeny: will ping sun again today
MartinSeibert: How long is that open?
peterthoeny: extremely long delay on the new server deployment :-(
peterthoeny: but we will get there
MartinSeibert: I do not want to push on that too hard. But we have been living with a bad state for a long time.
peterthoeny: yep
peterthoeny: ---++ 6. TWiki community survey
[12:56]
MartinSeibert: 3. Main.PeterThoeny: Ping Sun again to get new servers for faster www.twiki.org.
MartinSeibert: I want to do a survey.
MartinSeibert: That is part of what the TCC should do in my opinion.
MartinSeibert: We need to find out, what the community wants us to do.
MartinSeibert: We need to know, what their opinion on certain themes is.
VickiBrown: what is the second C in TCC?
peterthoeny: twiki community council
MartinSeibert: I would like to come up with a set of questions in the near future.
MartinSeibert: Peter: Do you have a list of mail addresses, that I can use to send out invitations, if everything is prepared?
MartinSeibert: I would like to make sure, that only registered members of TWiki.org can participate in the survey.
[12:59]
peterthoeny: vicki: see http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/IntroducingTWikiGovernance and http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiGovernance
peterthoeny: i can compile the list of twikicommunitygroup
peterthoeny: that is the most focused group
MartinSeibert: If there is no list of emails, there is no chance of a legitimate vote, that we can rely on.
MartinSeibert: Perfect.
MartinSeibert: Can you say how many members are in there?
peterthoeny: i don;t think we should spam 36k registered users
MartinSeibert: I would use LimeSurvey for the survey.
MartinSeibert: See: http://www.limesurvey.org/
MartinSeibert: No, definitely not. :-)
[1:01]
VickiBrown: peterthoeny: I agree. esp as many of them are not "active"
peterthoeny: why not a twiki based survey?
VickiBrown: heh :)
peterthoeny: do you want to have this anonymous?
peterthoeny: if so an external survey site is useful
peterthoeny: else a twiki form app on twiki.org
VickiBrown: two comments from me:
MartinSeibert: I want to make sure, that we can mail them and remind them via mail.
VickiBrown: IF you make it anonymous, please incude a space for name if the person is willing
MartinSeibert: They will only have to click on a link in the mail and fill out the form.
[1:03]
VickiBrown: and be sure to include a space for additionl feedback (questions that weren't asked)
peterthoeny: same with a twiki forms app
VickiBrown: I hate surveys that don't allow for free form additional comments!
peterthoeny: martin: have you created a twikiforms app already?
MartinSeibert: Vicki: As I said. I will post my set of questions. You can add then. :-)
VickiBrown: ok :0
MartinSeibert: Peter: No. Not yet.
VickiBrown: You can try my tutorial :)
peterthoeny: you could ask carlos or michael to help out
VickiBrown: if it works for you we can post at twiki.org :)
[1:05]
peterthoeny: good way to familiarize yourself on a very essential twiki feature :-)
MartinSeibert: The only thing I know: The LimeSurvey-solution is set up and running and can be done very fast. It is reliable and anonymous if we want it.
peterthoeny: time check: +65 min
MartinSeibert: Vicki: Will you give me a link?
VickiBrown:    http://cfcl.com/twiki/bin/view/Learn/Tut/TWikiTutApp  
peterthoeny: the community needs transparency
MartinSeibert: What I would put in the notes: "The participants like the idea of a TWiki Community survey."
peterthoeny: the twiki.devs etc don't really add to transparency
peterthoeny: so a transparent survey would help in gelling the community together
MartinSeibert: "The members of twikicommunitygroup shall be mailed to participate. Their vote is to be collected."
[1:07]
peterthoeny: vote?
VickiBrown: input
peterthoeny: i thought you want to perform a survey
MartinSeibert: "We need to decide, whether to use Lime Survey or a TWiki-based solution.!
MartinSeibert: "We need to decide, whether to use Lime Survey or a TWiki-based solution."
VickiBrown: do we need to bother everyone with the choice of tool?
MartinSeibert: "The members of twikicommunitygroup shall be mailed to participate. Their input is to be collected."
VickiBrown: I am confused
VickiBrown: who is "We" in deciding on Lime or TWiki survey?
MartinSeibert: Okay. Right. I will take care of that after looking into the tutorial.
[1:08]
VickiBrown: ok
VickiBrown: I grant my proxy to Martin
VickiBrown: MartinSeibert: if you want to do TWiki Forms app and want help, hller. I've done a dozen or so now
peterthoeny: martin: in any case i think it is good to post the survey questions in the codev web ahead of time
VickiBrown: 1st is weord. Secnd is easy.
MartinSeibert: I officially apply as survey champion. :-)
VickiBrown: after the secnd you do EVERYTHING in a TWiki app :)
MartinSeibert: Peter: Sure.
peterthoeny: ---++ 7. Brainstorming for ideas
MartinSeibert: I officially apply as survey champion. :-)
[1:11]
MartinSeibert: 3. Main.MartinSeibert: Come up with set of questions for the survey in Codev before performing it.
peterthoeny: on brainstorming section i have an action item open
peterthoeny: remains open until we are on the new server (i want to avoid double work)
MartinSeibert: Okay for me.
peterthoeny: anything on brainstorming?
MartinSeibert: I would like someone to comment on http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiOrganization someday. :-)
MartinSeibert: I am thinking especially of you, Peter. :-)
peterthoeny: i will
MartinSeibert: I would be fine with: "I agree, that these actions are worth it." in the comments section. :-)
MartinSeibert: Cool.
[1:15]
peterthoeny: at first glance it looks like a deviation from the twikigovernance proposal
MartinSeibert: 6. Main.PeterThoeny: Comment on http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiOrganization.
peterthoeny: there are some good parts, such as survey to understand interest and workload of community members
VickiBrown: speaking of TWikiGovernance...
MartinSeibert: The better. This is what I would like to operationalize for TWiki.
VickiBrown: who is supposed to be writing TWikiCommunityCouncil?
peterthoeny: action item on me
MartinSeibert: 7. Main.PeterThoeny: Write a section on TWikiCommunityCouncil.
peterthoeny: anything else? close the meeting?
VickiBrown: 1 vote to adjourn
VickiBrown: I can post the IRC log
[1:22]