--- Log opened Mon Apr 07 12:55:38 2008
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20:01 < Michael____> Hello, this is Michael Corbett here
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20:01 < peterthoeny> hi arthur, koen, kenneth, michael c, sven (here?)
20:02 < gmc> hi.. just finished watching a documentary on telly about wiki/web2.0
20:02 < gmc> no mention of twiki :)
20:02 -!- AndreU [n=AndreU@92.226.88.165] has joined #twiki_marketing
20:02 < peterthoeny> minutes at http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiMarketingMeeting2008x04x07
20:02 < Michael____> What wikis did they mention?
20:02 < gmc> wikipedia
20:03 < peterthoeny> could someone update the welcome message with this link (i have not figured out how to do that in colloquy
20:03 < Michael____> Well, it is the 9th most popular website the world
20:03 < peterthoeny> hi andre!
20:03 < ArthurClemens_> hi all
20:03 < AndreU> hi together!
20:03 < ArthurClemens_> I just missed the documentary
20:03 < peterthoeny> where was this documentary?
20:03  * ArthurClemens_ gets a dessert first
20:03 < gmc> ArthurClemens_: i taped it.. (well, digitally actually)
20:04 < gmc> peterthoeny: how does one normally change the topic? just /topic?
20:04 < peterthoeny> tv?
20:04 -!- gmc changed the topic of #twiki_marketing to: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiMarketingMeeting2008x04x07
20:04 < peterthoeny> thanks
20:04 < gmc> peterthoeny: dutch tv, yes
20:04 < gmc> it was about web 2.0 criticism.. 
20:05 < peterthoeny> who is taking notes, who is facilitating?
20:05 < Michael____> By the way, TWiki.org (codev in particular) is running like a dog right now
20:05 < peterthoeny> i have a hard stop at +60 min
20:05 < Michael____> And I don't mean a greyhound...  ;)
20:05 < peterthoeny> let me check the .org
20:05 < gmc> yeah, its slow as usual..
20:05 < gmc> i'll facilitate if no-one else volunteers
20:06 < peterthoeny> hi load, but not by a single address
20:06 < gmc> quite the agenda today..
20:06 < Michael____> I second GMC as facilitator  :)
20:07 < peterthoeny> ok, thanks koen
20:07 < peterthoeny> who is taking notes
20:07 < peterthoeny> >
20:07 < peterthoeny> ?
20:07 < Michael____> Peter, I just created a Talk page for TWikiMarketing
20:07 < peterthoeny> ok
20:07 < Michael____> I was thinking that we could take notes there
20:08 < peterthoeny> no, better to have notes on the minutes page
20:08 < peterthoeny> and action items on the twikimarketing page
20:09 < gmc> so, let's get started (not a very high turn-up tonight :(
20:09 < peterthoeny> yes, let's start, more might show up later
20:10 < peterthoeny> proposed agenda:
20:10 < peterthoeny> # 1. Blogging
20:10 < Michael____> Yes please.  Let's talk about blogging
20:10 < peterthoeny> # 2. Usability & Home Page Redesign
20:10 < peterthoeny> # 3. Testimonials & Contest
20:10 < peterthoeny> # 4. TWiki.org Performance
20:10 < peterthoeny> # 5. Merchandising
20:10 < peterthoeny> # 6. TWiki Meetups
20:10 < peterthoeny> # 7. TWiki Summit
20:10 < peterthoeny> # 8. Brainstorming for ideas
20:10 < gmc> let's start with the agenda: do we need to go by all of the items individually, or should we perhaps limit ourselves to those that are current / have some news?
20:10 < peterthoeny> who is taking notes?
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20:10 < gmc> no way we are going to go into all of the items in 50 minutes
20:10 < peterthoeny> hi oliver!
20:10 < gmc> hi OliverKrueger 
20:10 < Michael____> Can I ask a quick question re Martin Cleaver's latest blog post:
20:10 < OliverKrueger> Hello folks. (Im not really here. Just following with one eye...) :-)
20:11 < Michael____> Why are all those ascii non printing characters there?
20:11 < gmc> Michael____: where?
20:11 < Michael____> Well on the main blog page it says, for example: "What #8217;s being presented"
20:11 < Michael____> But it should say: " What's being presented"
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20:12 < ktwilight_> hi all
20:12 < gmc> hi ktwilight_ 
20:12 < Michael____> Hi there Kwang
20:12 < gmc> Michael____: hmmmm, good question.. 
20:12 < ktwilight_> hi michael
20:12 < peterthoeny> paste from word or the like i guess
20:12 < ktwilight_> hi gmc :)
20:12 < gmc> (loading blog home.......)
20:12 < peterthoeny> hi kwang!
20:12 < gmc> peterthoeny: probably yes
20:12 < ktwilight_> hi peter
20:12 < Michael____> Well, I've noticed the same thing with my TWIki
20:12 < ktwilight_> will be in and out, just got back so... :)
20:12 < Michael____> Haven't had chance to work out why yet
20:13 < ArthurClemens_> these are probably curly quotes
20:13 < gmc> they're easy to fix though, if you see them. it's a wiki :)
20:13 < peterthoeny> nobody volunteered to take notes, so i will do it 'til +60 min
20:13 < Michael____> True :)  Though its a tough job when it happens all the time
20:14 < gmc> the main article has it right though
20:14 < ArthurClemens_> these get escaped in the summary
20:14 < ktwilight_> where are we?
20:14 < gmc> ktwilight_: we just started
20:14 < Michael____> What shall we do?  Shall we leave the page as it is?
20:14 < ktwilight_> ah
20:14 < gmc> Michael____: no, edit it :) 
20:15 < peterthoeny> no, fix it, it;s a wiki :-)
20:15 < Michael____> I just went to edit it
20:15 < gmc> not something we need to discuss here in very much detail i think
20:15 < gmc> bloggin - how are we doin' in the blogosphere?
20:15 < Michael____> It isn't hard coded - the page pulls in content from somewhere else
20:15 < Michael____> And the "somewhere else" is fine
20:15 < gmc> Michael____: edit the main article
20:16 < Michael____> GMC - the main article is fine.  See: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Blog/2008-04-07-toronto-wiki-tuesdays-using-wikis-to-debate#BlogPosts
20:16 < gmc> the main artcile has the html entities in there (if you do a raw edit)
20:16 < gmc> apparently the html entities are escaped in the summary..
20:17 < Michael____> Ah, hang on - I told a fib there
20:17 < ktwilight_> question, are we being exposed in blog aggregators?
20:17 < gmc> i think we have a problem with technorati et all..
20:17 < gmc> because any blog that is done using twiki shows up as a blog _about_ twiki
20:17 < ktwilight_> in what way?
20:17 < gmc> in fact, any site that is a twiki site and has rss shows up as a blog about twiki..
20:18 < ktwilight_> oh
20:18 < ktwilight_> maybe we should ship robots.txt to disallow /TWiki
20:18 < gmc> eg http://www.technorati.com/search/twiki?authority=a4&language=en
20:19 < ktwilight_> hm, that's not so interesting at all
20:20 < gmc> we are not going to fix that though..
20:20 < OliverKrueger> The html entities in the summary are a known bug ... at least, this is the second time I read about them.
20:20 < ktwilight_> hm, mainly from t.o too
20:20 < OliverKrueger> Dunno if there is already a bugs Item.
20:20 < ktwilight_> peterthoeny, think you can just block technorati bots on /Main?
20:21 < peterthoeny> we could if i know how
20:21 < ktwilight_> pretty much keep a list of bots to disallow parts of t.o would be good
20:21 < peterthoeny> bots read webchanges
20:22 < peterthoeny> time check: +22 min
20:22 < gmc> we should not try to find a solution to this problem here and now, i think..
20:22 < gmc> just get some people commited to thinking about getting a solution
20:22 < ktwilight_> fair.
20:23 < ktwilight_> i'll try to find a solution for this
20:23 < gmc> excellent, ty!
20:23 < ktwilight_> is technorati the only site known for this 'issue'?
20:23 < gmc> i don't know of conrete other examples.. but it's inherent in how we publish rss feeds..
20:23 < ktwilight_> hm, k. i'll investigate
20:24 < peterthoeny> bots read the webrss in each web
20:24 < gmc> twiki based blogs mix wiki content and blgo content , which is not what most blog analyzing sofwtare assumes
20:24 < gmc> it's a tough one.. i'll be happy to discuss it further on irc in the coming two weeks 
20:25 < gmc> for now, unless someone has something else about blogging, let's move on to the next item on our big agenda
20:25 < ktwilight_> hm, but as long as we can block out some bots on certain Webs, it should be good enough.
20:25 < ktwilight_> k
20:25 < gmc> 2. Usability & Home Page Redesign 
20:25 < gmc> tbh, i haven't kept my end of the promise on this one to start writing content
20:26 < ArthurClemens_> noone has
20:26 < ArthurClemens_> so we are stuck with an old site :-(
20:26 < gmc> i feared so.. so this is stalling :(
20:26 < ArthurClemens_> well, you can't expect me to write it all?
20:27 < gmc> of course not, wasn't suggesting that :)
20:27 < Michael____> Perhaps we need a different approach - how can split the task down into smaller chunks?
20:27 < gmc> Michael____: i think we discussed this.. Arthur split it up in chunks
20:27 < ArthurClemens_> we make the pages smaller...
20:27  * gmc frantically tries to find the page with the table with work items
20:28 < ArthurClemens_> in the meantime, we haven't discussed any designs yet
20:28 < peterthoeny> http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiOrgRenewalWorks2008ToDo
20:28 < gmc> peter, tnx
20:28 < ArthurClemens_> or, have we?
20:29 < ArthurClemens_> I don't remember any remarks...
20:29 < ktwilight_> what's the process of the migration? or are we cleaning up every single page?
20:29 < ArthurClemens_> no, we write the pages that are listed
20:30 < ArthurClemens_> and we will encounter some that can be integrated into the structure
20:30 < ktwilight_> i see
20:30 < ArthurClemens_> all other pages will just exist unless they are really no longer needed
20:30 < peterthoeny> time check: +30 min
20:30 < ArthurClemens_> the WebHome topics will be rewritten and redesigned
20:30 < gmc> so we're doing a gradual migration? eg, replace content when it is there?
20:30 < ArthurClemens_> and 1 or 2 levels deeper
20:31 < ArthurClemens_> yes, it can even happen without a design
20:31 < ktwilight_> am quite against gradual migration, it can be bad image
20:31 < ArthurClemens_> is the current state any better?
20:31 < gmc> ArthurClemens_: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/NewNavigationModelForTWikiDotOrg has some discussion, doesn't it, on designs?
20:32 < ArthurClemens_> yes it has
20:32 < ArthurClemens_> good remarks from Michael Daum
20:32 < gmc> yes, he was very skeptical of your earlier designs 
20:33 < ArthurClemens_> agreed
20:33 < ArthurClemens_> they were not that good
20:33 < gmc> so how to move forward? is this getting enough community traction?
20:33 < gmc> if not, how to gain more traction?
20:34 < gmc> right now, it is mainly resting on your shoulders, but it's way too much for one single person to pull off
20:34 < ArthurClemens_> I think we have the most active group here
20:34 < ArthurClemens_> I cannot tell others what to do
20:34 < gmc> would deadlines help?
20:34 < ArthurClemens_> people must pick it up themselves
20:34 < ktwilight_> ArthurClemens_, we can start by having a central working template
20:35 < ArthurClemens_> well, first we need the ideas
20:35 < ArthurClemens_> about what should be on what page
20:35 < gmc> has there been a blog post (and subsequent newsletter item) about this already?
20:35 < ArthurClemens_> nope
20:35 < ktwilight_> refining TWikiOrgRenewalWorks2008ToDo?
20:35 < ArthurClemens_> ktwilight_: yes
20:35 < ArthurClemens_> filling in actually
20:36 < ArthurClemens_> the discussion should take place there
20:36 < ArthurClemens_> is it clear what is needed?
20:36 < ktwilight_> clear to me. but i really thought it was done already
20:37 < gmc> i think it is clear, yes..
20:37 < gmc> ktwilight_: in what way? 
20:37 < ArthurClemens_> the structure has been done. now we are getting to the page level
20:37 < ktwilight_> ah i see. must have skipped that :)
20:38 < gmc> ok, so the strongest we can say here is that we are going to expand on http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiOrgRenewalWorks2008ToDo
20:38 < gmc> maybe we can agree that each of us fills in at least one of the sub-items on that page in the coming 2 weeks..
20:38 < gmc> i know we're all quite busy, so let's set small goals
20:38 < gmc> rome wasn't built in a single day :)
20:38 < ArthurClemens_> ok, lets us write this into our agendas
20:40 < gmc> yikes, my agenda is overflowing :)
20:40 < gmc> ok i've actually scheduled this in my agenda
20:40 < gmc> (time check +40)
20:40 < ArthurClemens_> hmm, strangely any EDITTABLE breaks the table layout
20:41 < gmc> ktwilight_, OliverKrueger , andreu, Michael____ , peterthoeny : can we count on you?
20:41 < ktwilight_> gmc, hm, maybe. no promises. but i'll try to take on section 4
20:41 < peterthoeny> i can't commit to much, but i will try
20:42 < ktwilight_> we can all pick a subsection and commit in a week ;)
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20:42 < ArthurClemens_> hmm
20:42 < gmc> ktwilight_: that's a whole section.. comitting a sub-section'll be enough tonight :)
20:42 < ktwilight_> truly bite-size if you ask me
20:42 < Michael____> Hi there Martin, just cleaned up your blog entry ;)
20:42 < ktwilight_> gmc, yea, i know, i just haven't decide which subsection :)
20:42 < peterthoeny> hi martin c!
20:42 < gmc> ktwilight_: decide when you're sitting down for it :)
20:43 < ktwilight_> i'll stuff it in my agenda
20:43 < gmc> let's move on to 3 ok? leave design for later.. 
20:43 < peterthoeny> go  for it
20:43 < gmc> 3. Testimonials & Contest 
20:43 < Michael____> The contest deadline is next Monday
20:43 < MartinCleaver> :)
20:44 < peterthoeny> no submissions on contest yet
20:44 < Michael____> So far no entries - and I don'tthink we'll get any
20:44 < Michael____> :(
20:44 < ktwilight_> :/
20:44 < peterthoeny> i discussed this at work
20:44 < ktwilight_> did anyone take on the role to reel in some potentials?
20:44 < peterthoeny> may be we are asking the wrong audience
20:44 < ktwilight_> t.n i mean
20:44 < Michael____> I think the best we can do is to learn something from the experience
20:44 < Michael____> Wrong audience?
20:44 < peterthoeny> a different type of contest might draw more attention
20:45 < gmc> peterthoeny: what audience did we ask? what audience should we ask?
20:45 < ktwilight_> did anyone approach this "audience"?
20:45 < gmc> ah ok, you mean, the right audience, but the wrong task :)
20:45 < peterthoeny> well, we are asking keeks to produce videos, e.g. produce something in a media they are not familiar with
20:45 < ktwilight_> other than blogging and posting it up on t.o of course
20:45 < Michael____> Well, I forwarded you an email about a code writing contest - I'm sure we'd get loads of entries for that! 
20:45 < peterthoeny> if we ask to create a cool twiki app we might bet more results
20:45 < gmc> peterthoeny: i think that might well be right.. 
20:45 < ktwilight_> Michael____, not sure about that. TWikiApplications didn't exactly take off either
20:46 < gmc> peterthoeny: or make a contest of implementations..
20:46 < gmc> eg, you don't have to do anything extra for it, just showcase what is already one
20:46 < ktwilight_> how wililng are companies/organisations in showing their twiki pages/topics?
20:46 < gmc> 'best public twiki site' will get you a whole list of interesting public twiki sites i guess
20:47 < gmc> (time check +47)
20:47 < Michael____> This is what Atlassian are doing: http://confluence.atlassian.com/display/CODEGEIST/Atlassian+Codegeist
20:47 < ktwilight_> hm, actually a showcast idea is pretty good. a couple of screenshots of the twiki setup, like wallpapers, and short description like the TWikiSuccessStories page
20:49 < Michael____> The trouble is that TWiki is probably best suited to private rather than public sites
20:50 < gmc> which the atlassian guys solved by getting plugins, so you don't have to disclose what is _in_ the wiki
20:50 < peterthoeny> time chck: +50 min (i need to sign off in 10 min)
20:50 < gmc> ok let's do 4 now, and move back to 3 later.. 
20:50 < gmc> 4. TWiki.org Performance 
20:50 < gmc> since peter is the man with the news here (i hope :)
20:51 < peterthoeny> good news: the one webserver and san backend with 2.4 tb is racked and powered up!
20:51 < gmc> \o/
20:51 < ktwilight_> great!
20:51 < Michael____> Great stuff! :)
20:51 < ktwilight_> what's the ETA for its migration? ;)
20:51 < peterthoeny> i am now talking to marcos della who helpout out before to configure the servers for load balancing
20:51 < peterthoeny> he knows loadbalancing and sun hardware inside out
20:51 < gmc> how do we proceed from here? 
20:51 < gmc> ok
20:52 < peterthoeny> i briefly talked to marcos last fri on the phone
20:52 < peterthoeny> he will come to the datacenter this week
20:52 < peterthoeny> i have no eta at this time when we have shell level access
20:52 < gmc> he's going to set up twiki , or just the os? or webserver?
20:53 < peterthoeny> he is going to bring the server infra up to a level where we have common file system access from the webservers
20:53 < gmc> ok, i know some ex-sun employees who are much into this, but i doubt it would help much as they're in nl :)
20:53 < peterthoeny> it is up to us to install twiki
20:54 < Michael____> Peter, would it be possible to write a short summary (no more than a few sentences) about this on the page NewTWikiOrgServer2008?
20:54 < peterthoeny> marcos is local here, so he is the ideal resource
20:54 < peterthoeny> yes, that is an open to do for me
20:54 < gmc> so, we currently have a web team, no?
20:54 < peterthoeny> we are still waiting for sun to ship the two remaining webservers
20:55 < gmc> ok, but we can move ahead without them for now.. no doubt it'll already be an improvement
20:55 < peterthoeny> twiki.org server admin is currently done by sven and me
20:55 < gmc> i offered to help out way back, but the q: is it necesarry or will you two continue as before?
20:56 < peterthoeny> yes, we will configure the servers for load balancing, use it with one webserver, and drop in more webservers later when we get them
20:56 < gmc> ah ktwilight_ i see you made it to core! TWiki:Codev.CoreTeam
20:56 < gmc> i missed that actually
20:56  * ktwilight_ did??
20:56 < peterthoeny> koen, it would be good to get you as an admin in europe
20:56 < peterthoeny> simply because of time zones
20:57 < ktwilight_> i agree there should be a 3rd
20:57 < peterthoeny> when usa sleeps other parts can act (on outage etc)
20:57 < gmc> yes, np, my offer still stands so just call on me whenever you guys are ready
20:57 < peterthoeny> ok
20:58 < gmc> i see these are listed as current webmasters btw: PeterThoeny, CrawfordCurrie, SvenDowideit, KennethLavrsen, OliverKrueger, KwangErnLiew
20:58 < ktwilight_> it's all new to me.
20:58 < Lavr_> I occationally kill a wild process or reset a blacklisted poor guy
20:58 < peterthoeny> well, crawford and sven are webmasters for develop.twiki.org
20:59 < gmc> ah yes, we have that too
20:59 < ktwilight_> who added me? and what role do i specifically play? :/
20:59 < gmc> time check +59
21:00 < OliverKrueger> I am a webmaster?
21:00 < peterthoeny> http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/rdiff/Codev/TWikiOrgWebmasterRole?type=history says sven
21:00 < peterthoeny> i do not recall this
21:00  * OliverKrueger just got back from the phone.
21:00 < ktwilight_> OliverKrueger, surprise surprise?
21:00 < gmc> heh.. okay so action item: update the CoreTeam topic :)
21:01 < ktwilight_> ah i see. i know we've briefly discussed this last year, but nothing materialised
21:01 < OliverKrueger> That was new to me. :)
21:01 < gmc> i also vaguely remember that discussion.. i think it was during that discussion i also offered my help
21:01 < ktwilight_> yup
21:01 < gmc> anyway, i guess we've got that sorted now..
21:01 < ktwilight_> think us 3, OliverKrueger, gmc and i offered
21:01 < ktwilight_> hm
21:02 < OliverKrueger> Maybe, yes. :)
21:02 < gmc> the ball is in peter's court now (or actuall marcos'), when he's done the community can start work
21:02 < ktwilight_> you and your (slow) machines ;)
21:02 < peterthoeny> ok, i need to sign off now. i'll leave the log on
21:02 < ktwilight_> c-ya peter
21:02 < peterthoeny> i saved the minutes page
21:02 < gmc> peterthoeny: have a good day, and thanks so far!
21:02 < peterthoeny> someone needs to take notes from now on
21:02 < gmc> who's taking notes now?
21:02 < OliverKrueger> I neither have a job description nor any passwords.
21:02 < peterthoeny> thanks all
21:03 < OliverKrueger> Bye Peter
21:03 < gmc> proposal: let's go on till at most +90
21:03 < gmc> any longer and i'll fall asleep :)
21:03 < ktwilight_> OliverKrueger, you forgot to sign your contract too ;P
21:04 < gmc> also, referring to http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiMarketingMeeting2008x04x07 i propose to reshuffle the remaining items to finishing 3, then on to 7 (summit) and then pick up 5 and 6
21:04 < gmc> (if there's time left)
21:04 < gmc> and: who's taking notes? 
21:04 < OliverKrueger> We have the "Fernabsatz" laws here in germany, so every contract by phone or internet can easily be revoked. ;)
21:05 < OliverKrueger> I did not follow the discussion from minute 1-63, so I am not a good candidate for the notes. :-(
21:05 < Michael____> Sorry guys, I have to leave too.
21:06 < OliverKrueger> Bye Michael____
21:06 < gmc> by Michael____ 
21:06 < ktwilight_> c-ya Michael____
21:06 < gmc> well actually, if everyone's leaving.. let's do 7 and end it..
21:06 < gmc> Michael____: i'll try and call you this week btw !
21:07 < gmc> 7. TWiki Summit 
21:07 < ktwilight_> sure
21:07 < Lavr_> Kenneth wakes up :-)
21:07 < gmc> yep :)
21:07 < gmc> so i see we have a accomodations!
21:08 < OliverKrueger> I dont think, that there is another big event on 4-5 sep.
21:08 < OliverKrueger> There is the IFA fair till 3rd sep.
21:08 < Lavr_> Well. we have a confirmation on the date. Next is for people to add themselves to the RSVP
21:08 < gmc> anything else, organisation-wise we need to do?
21:08 < gmc> i guess the conference bridge is settled..
21:08 < gmc> i think it'd be nice to have a video feed though.. 
21:09 < Lavr_> We need to agree what hotel we stay at - if we assume we want to enjoy hanging in the hotel bar together :-)
21:09 < gmc> at the very least, two beamers would be cool
21:09 < gmc> any experts on berlin hotels?
21:09 < OliverKrueger> I can bring a beamer in.
21:09 < OliverKrueger> hrs.com
21:09 < gmc> OliverKrueger: me too, i was hoping motorola could provide two though :)
21:09 < Lavr_> I would assume there is a fixed beamer in the meeting room.
21:10 < OliverKrueger> Yep, so we can build a cave with 6 beamers... ;)
21:10 < gmc> Lavr_: what about internet? i doubt that motorola would let us use their network..
21:10 < Lavr_> We will have two rooms...
21:10 < Lavr_> One small which has an outside Internet line
21:10 < Lavr_> And the big one with only Intranet
21:10 < gmc> ok, so if i bring a long cable.... :)
21:11 < Lavr_> I am hoping to be able to simply put a wireless router in the small room.
21:11 < OliverKrueger> Is there a chance that a wireless router in room 2 can be seen in room 1?
21:11 < gmc> i think we need to refactor http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiCommunitySummitBerlin2008Q3
21:11 < gmc> throw out obsolete comments, put in what we have, what we need, and work from there
21:11 < OliverKrueger> I have a small wireless router (for hotel rppms) I can bring along.
21:12 < Lavr_> I also have a wireless router and I also think I have a big external antenna if we need to extend the range
21:12 < gmc> oh the topic has been refactored a lot already.. good
21:13 < gmc> i think this calls for a blog post!
21:13 < gmc> and a newsletter..
21:14 < gmc> so the rest of the community that isn't constantly tracking Codev knows to rsvp too
21:14 < gmc> i volunteer to write that blog post
21:14 < OliverKrueger> Lavr_: Sven mentioned this morning, that your comment on the hotel situation might keep people from attending for the summit,
21:15 < OliverKrueger> Maybe we should make it less absolute...
21:16 < Lavr_> Well. There is no panic with hotels now. But if people wait till 1-2 months before then the main problem will be to have all of us at the same hotel.
21:16 < Lavr_> so that is why I think we should try and arrange hotel booking within the next month
21:16 < gmc> Lavr_: why don't we just 'pre-book' a couple of rooms
21:16 < gmc> and finalise the booking later on..
21:17 < Lavr_> I do not fancy prebooking on my credit card for people that may not show up.
21:17 < gmc> i don't think you should book anything on your credit card..
21:17 < gmc> did t.n book rooms on their credit card in rome?
21:18 -!- PeterThoeny_ [n=PeterTho@63.146.69.17] has joined #twiki_marketing
21:18 < gmc> i have no idea how this works..
21:18 < OliverKrueger> me neither.
21:18 < Lavr_> Depends on the hotel. Many business hotels ask for a credit card as security.
21:18 < ktwilight_> usually a small deposit is required for prebooking
21:18 < gmc> someone (preferably from germany) should maybe call the hotel
21:18 < OliverKrueger> I can do so.
21:18 < gmc> see what deal can be made
21:19 < ktwilight_> what's the price range? anyone know?
21:19 < Lavr_> The price for the hotel very near Motorola cost round 80 Euros per night with Motorola discount. Normal price is something like 120
21:19 < OliverKrueger> There is already a special deal between the hotel and motorola.
21:19 < gmc> maybe it's enough for them if they know they can shift say 5 rooms for sure and 5 more less sure now, but confirmed 2-3 months in advance..?
21:19 < Lavr_> But we can also find much cheaper if someone wish to be further away.
21:19 < gmc> Lavr_: i like luxurious prices myself :)
21:19 < ktwilight_> ah i see
21:19 < gmc> time check +80
21:20 < OliverKrueger> It should be ok, if they get a "confirmed" 2 months in advance.
21:20 < Lavr_> I probably go by car so I can have 4 passengers. If someone else goes by car we may be able to stay elsewhere without having to pay taxis
21:21 < Lavr_> But Hotel am Borsigturm is a nice hotel. But not very large. Modern but small.
21:21 < OliverKrueger> I guess, I will be there by car aswell, so we have 8 seats.
21:21 < Lavr_> and often sold out
21:21 < gmc> subway is fine for me (actually i prefer subway over car, but that's my personal obsession)
21:22 < ktwilight_> hehe
21:22 < gmc> well ok, OliverKrueger will call the hotel soon
21:22 < gmc> (i don't have www.metro.cx for nothing :)
21:22 < Lavr_> Motorola is close to a subway station. Walking for less than 5 minutes
21:22 < gmc> we'll know more after oliver's call
21:22 < Lavr_> great
21:23 < gmc> and i will write a blog post.. hopefully a newsletter will be sent out not too long after that
21:23  * ktwilight_ needs to check his crystal ball to see what happens then
21:23 < OliverKrueger> Ok, I will ask, for how long I get a non-binding reservation for 5-10 rooms.
21:23 < gmc> well, you already have 3 rooms for certain it seems in the rsvp
21:24 < OliverKrueger> I will post my outcome on the summits topic.
21:24 < gmc> i have to check, early september is difficult for me so i'll have to see if i can arrange things so i can be there.. i'd very much like to be
21:24 < gmc> OliverKrueger: excellent, thanks!
21:24 < ktwilight_> gmc, make that 4, according to the topic
21:24 < gmc> ktwilight_: weel carlos makes a reservation for urgent projects :)
21:24 < OliverKrueger> The RSVP refers to the hotel?! I thought it refers to the general attending.
21:24 < gmc> true
21:25 < Lavr_> The RSVP refers to the meeting.
21:25 < gmc> but you're one of them, and lavr and peter will obey :)
21:25 < Lavr_> people may attend that live in berlin.
21:25 < OliverKrueger> Ok, We should clarify that.
21:25 < ktwilight_> gmc, am still not accustomed to how european make such far plannings :)
21:25 < ktwilight_> s/make/can make/
21:25 < gmc> :)
21:26 < gmc> OliverKrueger: a simple extra column in the rsvp table will fix that
21:26 < OliverKrueger> sure.
21:26 < Lavr_> The Rome summit was planned two months ahead and people complained it was with too short notice. This time I wanted to be early ;-)
21:26 < ktwilight_> ;)
21:27 < OliverKrueger> What else was organised for the rome summit? What else do we need to talk about?
21:27 < Lavr_> The important things are where and hotel. The rest we can arrange along the way.
21:28 < ktwilight_> nearest airport maybe?
21:28 < gmc> indeed.. agenda can be set two wweks before, or (as last time) couple of days before :)
21:28 < OliverKrueger> The hotel bar is enough for the social program? ;)
21:28 < gmc> ktwilight_: take a train :)
21:28 < ktwilight_> gmc, cheaper?
21:28 < gmc> OliverKrueger: carlos will arrange a tour of berlin by night it says in the topic :)
21:28 < Lavr_> The guy that helps me in Berlin has promissed to give us a tour in our factory :-)
21:28 < ktwilight_> i don't quite fancy train changes
21:28 < ktwilight_> Lavr_, oo~ that's an attractive offer
21:29 < gmc> ok, let's close this meeting
21:29 < ktwilight_> Lavr_, would be great if you can list the airport and train station around the vicinity
21:29 < gmc> can someone update the minutes with the last 30 minutes? 
21:29 < ktwilight_> am guessin' there's more than one
21:29 < Lavr_> You can go to any of the 3 airports in Berlin.
21:30 < Lavr_> Tegel is the nearest. But Tempelhof and Shoenenfend (spelling) and within a 30 min taxi ride.
21:30 < OliverKrueger> Motorola is in Berlin Tegel. Tegel is one of the three airports.
21:30 < ktwilight_> which is most convenient to reach the hotel Am Borsigturm?
21:30 < ktwilight_> ah
21:30 < OliverKrueger> Schoenefeld.
21:30 < gmc> can someone update the minutes with the last 30 minutes? 
21:30 < Lavr_> Motorola is on a street called Am Borsigturm
21:30 < Lavr_> There is a "how to get there" link on the Summit topic.
21:31 < Lavr_> Taxi ride from Tegel is short.
21:31 < gmc> ktwilight_: you got it wrong, you plan to be there now, then worry about how to get there 2 weeks before :)
21:31 < ktwilight_> haha
21:31 < Lavr_> And you can park the car at Motorola if we stay at am Borsigturm hotel. It is 100 m from the hotel
21:31 < gmc> ok meeting closed, please continue at #twiki !
21:32 < gmc> thanks all, now shoo :)
21:32 < ktwilight_> k, i should head off too
21:32 < Lavr_> Good  night. Will be on #twiki another 30 minutes
21:32 < ktwilight_> gnite :)
21:32 -!- ktwilight_ [n=ktwiligh@87.66.192.102] has left #twiki_marketing ["dead"]
21:32 < OliverKrueger> gnite
21:33 -!- peterthoeny [n=PeterTho@twiki/founder/peterthoeny] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]