[11:38] *** #twiki_marketing: PeterThoeny SvenDowideit gmc [11:38] *** #twiki_marketing was created on Sun Sep 30 04:04:36 2007. [12:57] *** Lavr has joined #twiki_marketing. [12:57] Lavr: Is the marketing meeting now? [12:58] Lavr: 20:00 GMT is 21:00 CET [12:58] Lavr: We changed from DST to normal time the past weekend - in Europe. [13:01] PeterThoeny: hi koen, kenneth, (sven?)! [13:01] *** rodbeckstrom has joined #twiki_marketing. [13:01] PeterThoeny: hi rod! [13:01] rodbeckstrom: hi Peter! [13:02] PeterThoeny: rod and i are sitting next to each other [13:02] rodbeckstrom: ola Kenneth, Sven and Koen [13:02] Lavr: Hi Rod, Koen, Peter, Sven [13:02] rodbeckstrom: anybody home in Europe? [13:03] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiMarketingMeeting2007x10x29 [13:03] Lavr: The meeting call-in was mixed up in time. [13:04] Lavr: Or rather the minute topic is [13:04] PeterThoeny: oh? [13:04] Lavr: 2007-10-29 20:00 GMT is now. But the minutes topic also says 22:00 CET [13:05] Lavr: Europe changes back to normal time last weekend. [13:05] PeterThoeny: i simply copoed from earlier meeting [13:05] Lavr: changed [13:05] PeterThoeny: oic [13:05] PeterThoeny: safer to state gmt only :-) [13:05] Lavr: I wonder why US and EU cannot agree on changing the same dates [13:05] PeterThoeny: done [13:06] rodbeckstrom: Here's my favorite world meeting planner, fyi http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meeting.html [13:07] gmc: i'm in a meeting IRL atm.. :( [13:08] gmc: i was assuming 22:00 CET.. stupid timezones.. [13:08] rodbeckstrom: guys, I will be in Berlin next week at Web 2.0 from Nov 6-8 [13:08] rodbeckstrom: will any of you guys be there? [13:09] gmc: not me -> work! [13:09] PeterThoeny: is it better to postpone by one hour? [13:09] Lavr: I do not have any Berlin trips on my schedule Rod. [13:09] gmc: nah i don't care, this meeting is dragging on til after 22:00 CET anyway, i'll combine :) [13:10] gmc: (politics) [13:11] Lavr: I have never been as active in the marketing activities as I am with release activities. Simply because my personal interests are more related to getting a stable TWiki. So it will be a meeting between Peter and Rod so maybe it is best to wait. But I am not sure more will join later [13:12] Lavr: I have a dilemma. If we postpone the meeting I will have to help Diane with the dishes. [13:12] PeterThoeny: ok, since we do not have critrical mass, lets defer to 21:00gmt, e.g. in +50 min [13:13] Lavr: OK. I'll feed the dish washer then. [13:13] PeterThoeny: (kenneth, i help you out in spousal harmony) [13:13] PeterThoeny: ;-) [13:15] gmc: heh [13:58] *** Kobby has joined #twiki_marketing. [14:01] Kobby: Hello, is there anyone here? [14:01] PeterThoeny: hi michael, kenneth, rod, (sven?) [14:02] PeterThoeny: Kobby: did you get confused about the meeting time? [14:02] *** ArthurClemens has joined #twiki_marketing. [14:02] ArthurClemens: good evening! [14:02] PeterThoeny: the invite was for 20:00gmt, but the meeting page stated an incorrect cst [14:02] PeterThoeny: hi arthur [14:03] Kobby: Ah, OK. Sorry Peter, I just copied the time that was in the previous minutes. [14:03] * PeterThoeny wonders if kenneth finished washing the dishes [14:03] SvenDowideit: ooooer, a reasonable shaped time :) [14:03] rodbeckstrom: Hi guys! [14:03] SvenDowideit: hello all [14:03] SvenDowideit: (we just went DCEST) [14:04] PeterThoeny: Kobby: you created a TWikiMarketingMeeting2007x10x15 topic [14:04] Lavr: Hi - yes finished dishes. SWMBO says thanks [14:04] gmc: [Dah [14:04] PeterThoeny: probably meant to be http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiMarketingMeeting2007x10x29 [14:04] *** SvenDowideit has changed the topic on channel #twiki_marketing to http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiMarketingMeeting2007x10x29 :}. [14:04] PeterThoeny: Kobby: any content to carry over from 10-15? [14:05] *** MartinCleaver has joined #twiki_marketing. [14:05] PeterThoeny: hi martin [14:05] PeterThoeny: shall we start? [14:06] PeterThoeny: we have critical mass [14:06] PeterThoeny: who is taking minutes? who is faciliatting? [14:06] rodbeckstrom: vamanos! [14:06] rodbeckstrom: yes, I'm willing to facilitate [14:06] PeterThoeny: cool [14:06] rodbeckstrom: Koen- want to give us a blogging update? [14:06] PeterThoeny: Kobby or me for minutes? [14:07] Kobby: I'm afraid I can't take minutes - I am feeling ill [14:07] Kobby: Winter lurgy. :( [14:07] PeterThoeny: ---+ 1. Blogging [14:07] MartinCleaver: hi Peter [14:07] PeterThoeny: ok, i'll take the minutes [14:07] gmc: bloggin: going steady [14:07] gmc: sent out the newsletter today [14:07] gmc: unfortunately have not had the time to fix the comment problem [14:08] rodbeckstrom: here's a slashdot TWiki discussion that popped up on google news search http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314185&cid=20816871 [14:09] rodbeckstrom: here's an article that just came out in Industry week: http://www.industryweek.com/ReadArticle.aspx?ArticleID=15184&SectionID=1 [14:09] gmc: (fyi, i'm currently at a meeting IRL too, and an urgent problem with a customer has just popped up, so i might be a bit absent) [14:10] SvenDowideit: y, i think it shows we need to get 4.2 out and cooked [14:10] rodbeckstrom: and here is a very important TWIKI article on the Gartner Group Report. We are positioned well in the industry graph they prepared:http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=6777 [14:11] SvenDowideit: so we can talk up execution and leadership [14:11] rodbeckstrom: sure, let's wrap up blogging and press coverage first [14:11] rodbeckstrom: I think the Gartner group piece is important for our community, may be most read by companies re. collaboration [14:11] rodbeckstrom: any thoughts on how we can leverage this piece as a community? [14:12] rodbeckstrom: Peter & I spent time with Gartner on several calls, so we were glad to see it come out well overall [14:12] gmc: reading... [14:12] SvenDowideit: we need to show how and why we're leading the curve better [14:12] ArthurClemens: I wonder what they mean by "execution" [14:13] rodbeckstrom: also re. bloggers, I will be speaking to a group of German and European leading open source & tech bloggers in Berlin on Nov 6 (next tuesday) [14:13] *** xored has joined #twiki_marketing. [14:13] xored: is it "opend" ? [14:13] SvenDowideit: execution - ability to make things (improvements, releases, testing etc) happen? [14:13] rodbeckstrom: event will be at the NewThinking Store and will center on the Starfish and Spider book and I will touch on collaboration and wikis [14:13] rodbeckstrom: yes, the event is open [14:13] xored: (ok) [14:13] PeterThoeny: xored: welcome to thsi meeting [14:14] PeterThoeny: could you state your twiki.org username? [14:14] xored: Hello guys [14:14] *** xored is now known as EugenMAyer. [14:14] rodbeckstrom: Here's the link on that event http://store.newthinking.de/ [14:14] *** EugenMAyer is now known as EugenMayer. [14:14] PeterThoeny: thanks (for minutes) [14:14] rodbeckstrom: any else on blogs? [14:15] rodbeckstrom: okay, then on to homepage redesign- Arthur [14:15] PeterThoeny: ---++ 2. Home Page Redesign [14:15] rodbeckstrom: Arthur - are you there? [14:16] ArthurClemens: back [14:16] PeterThoeny: arthur and others did nice work on the personas [14:16] rodbeckstrom: great, any other comments Arthur? [14:16] ArthurClemens: I haven't had much time, neither did others for the last 2 weeks [14:17] rodbeckstrom: understood and all of your efforts are appreciated :) [14:17] PeterThoeny: anything you's like to bring up arthur? [14:17] rodbeckstrom: guess not ;) [14:17] ArthurClemens: I don't expect many more comments on http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/WebPageAudience#Info_needs actually [14:18] Lavr: Now the personas thing is complete - what is the next step - and how can we help? [14:18] ArthurClemens: I have to bring it a little further and propose a new scheme [14:18] rodbeckstrom: Great, can we move to next item Arthur? [14:18] ArthurClemens: yes [14:19] PeterThoeny: ---++ 3. Testimonials [14:19] rodbeckstrom: I'm the lead on this one [14:19] rodbeckstrom: TWIKI.NET has agreed to sponsor a TWiki video contest [14:19] rodbeckstrom: we have agreed to budget $3K in prizes [14:20] rodbeckstrom: what do you guys think would most engage people? [14:20] SvenDowideit: blinken lights :) [14:20] rodbeckstrom: pure cash or prizes like an Apple MacBook or iPod, etc? [14:20] rodbeckstrom: or maybe some other product? [14:20] SvenDowideit: carbon credits [14:20] rodbeckstrom: :) I like it!!!!! [14:21] rodbeckstrom: We can buy these at $5.50 per ton in the US, so that would be an option [14:21] SvenDowideit: ooo, solar powered blinken lights [14:21] rodbeckstrom: on an iPod? [14:21] SvenDowideit: there was a survey done, and some work (somewhere) [14:21] rodbeckstrom: which survey Sven? [14:22] SvenDowideit: showing the demographics to artist type promototions like this [14:22] SvenDowideit: (i recal it from 5-9 years ago) [14:22] rodbeckstrom: TWiki community specific or in general? [14:22] SvenDowideit: that suggested that the prize type influences stongly the demographic of the entrants [14:22] rodbeckstrom: okay... [14:23] SvenDowideit: ipod for eg might have less significance to the pro [14:23] gmc: personally, i don't care about ipods [14:23] rodbeckstrom: my thought is that what will benefit the community most is videos of real world apps that businesses have built that lead more people to understand why TWiki is so valuable as a structured (or programmable) wiki, as opposed to just a publishing wiki [14:23] SvenDowideit: cos they already used them to carry unfinished versions of the lotr between studios :) [14:23] gmc: can't we make it a choice price? ipod, money or donation to charity of choiuce? [14:23] rodbeckstrom: so my thought is we want people to video their real world business use of TWiki [14:24] gmc: rodbeckstrom: then ask yourself 'what is in it for them'? [14:24] SvenDowideit: rodbeckstrom, yep [14:24] rodbeckstrom: like Kenneth's cool ISO 9000 quality app, and others like that [14:24] gmc: are we aimimng at the motorola's, ibm's, etc.. or also the smaller companies? [14:24] rodbeckstrom: what's in it for them is helping TWiki become a successful, standout product [14:24] rodbeckstrom: small companies are great too [14:24] rodbeckstrom: even there, most small companies don't know that you can build apps and real business systems in TWiki [14:25] rodbeckstrom: what do you think Koen? [14:25] SvenDowideit: I'd spend quite a bit on it [14:25] SvenDowideit: if the prise was a sun t1000 [14:25] SvenDowideit: :} [14:25] PeterThoeny: we need to define the scope of the video, such as how many minutes... [14:25] rodbeckstrom: good idea, we should ask SUN!!! and will :) [14:25] SvenDowideit: cos I really would like a t1000 to make twiki go faster [14:25] EugenMayer: for the small one i could serve :) Iam currently developming TWiki as an Contribution / Managing / Organizing Intranet for schools in germany which should spread over in the start of 2008 [14:26] rodbeckstrom: cool!!! [14:26] Lavr: I like the idea that the message should be "a TWiki application that made a positive change in an organization" [14:26] SvenDowideit: mmm [14:26] rodbeckstrom: those concrete apps are what can help groups understand why TWiki is so valuable [14:26] SvenDowideit: that excludes howto videos [14:26] rodbeckstrom: YES Kenneth YES :) :) [14:26] SvenDowideit: that we also need [14:26] rodbeckstrom: how to's could be good too. we could have multiple classes [14:27] PeterThoeny: who is writing this up in YouTubeDemoContest2007? [14:27] SvenDowideit: the most successful vids i know, where all howto's [14:27] SvenDowideit: but I'm a doer, so I have a bias [14:27] rodbeckstrom: my thought is that right now many large organizations are trying to choose wiki and collaboration platforms and they have no idea why TWiki is the only wiki they can put behind their firewall that they can build real mission critical systems on [14:28] rodbeckstrom: okay, maybe people can share more ideas here http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/YouTubeDemoContest2007 [14:28] SvenDowideit: which is why they choose confluence [14:28] PeterThoeny: it is very difficult to explain the structured wikis concept in words, that is where the videos come in [14:28] rodbeckstrom: any last thoughts, else we should move to next item. great discussion here [14:28] EugenMayer: rodbeckstrom : no offense, but i dont think the current TWiki is that kind of "fireproof" [14:29] Lavr: Personally I will love to hear WHAT people used TWiki for and what kind of applications they made. Once you have the idea coding it is not so bad. Besides. The video could be combined by a ZIP file with the topics that makes an example of the application. [14:29] EugenMayer: And i mean the "std shipped twiki". Not the one you can build( which is great ) [14:29] rodbeckstrom: many companies are using for mission critical apps. With several million users at 60,000 sites, it's been tested more than any other wiki besides mediawiki perhaps [14:29] rodbeckstrom: the contest will be for all forms of TWiki [14:29] rodbeckstrom: okay team, let's roll to next item please :) [14:30] PeterThoeny: ---++ 4. TWiki.org Performance [14:30] PeterThoeny: that is on me [14:30] PeterThoeny: i will place the order later today [14:30] PeterThoeny: good spec :-) [14:30] PeterThoeny: two t1000 [14:30] SvenDowideit: Sun'll love that [14:30] PeterThoeny: talking to a Sun StorageTek 5220 NAS Appliance [14:30] rodbeckstrom: so Sven looks like your dreams for the community are comin true!!! [14:30] SvenDowideit: will be slower atm though [14:30] rodbeckstrom: good work Peter!!!! [14:30] PeterThoeny: on a dediacted network in between [14:30] SvenDowideit: as some perf work will be needed [14:31] PeterThoeny: sun will place the order internally tomorrow [14:31] PeterThoeny: so finally we are moving forward [14:31] PeterThoeny: the load balancer will nit be ready for a few weeks [14:31] PeterThoeny: so we will go with one t1000 first [14:31] PeterThoeny: and later add the load balancer [14:31] EugenMayer: We really get a "useable" twiki.org in the future days? That`s kind a dream came true, good work :) [14:32] SvenDowideit: not just a faster twiki.org [14:32] rodbeckstrom: okay, that's good news Peter, anything else on this topic? [14:32] SvenDowideit: using t1000's means that we'll be doing some performanceing work on twiki [14:33] SvenDowideit: cos each individual core is not _that_ fast [14:33] EugenMayer: which is the only negative point on twiki. Performance (for my naive thinking yet) [14:33] PeterThoeny: t1000 have a high througput, but are not as fast in burst mode [14:33] PeterThoeny: yes, we need to do some performance tuning [14:33] SvenDowideit: basically, each core is like a pIII 1GHz [14:34] SvenDowideit: but you get 24 / 32 of them [14:34] rodbeckstrom: also, before we close I want to say a huge thank you to SUN Microsystems, Steve Kwan! :) [14:34] SvenDowideit: dbstore will help even more, but that'll be in a bit [14:35] rodbeckstrom: okay t - 36, next... [14:35] PeterThoeny: ---++ 5. Press Releases [14:35] SvenDowideit: as that will offload the queries to another core [14:35] rodbeckstrom: Peter & Michael u guys are lead on this one [14:35] Kobby: Peter, I haven't made any progress over the last 2 weeks. I suggest we have a phone chat. Maybe tomorrow? [14:36] PeterThoeny: yes, lets take this offline [14:36] PeterThoeny: tomorrow what time? [14:36] Kobby: You are 8 hours behind? [14:36] rodbeckstrom: and on the press topic, perhaps we should do one to announce the YouTube contest [14:36] Kobby: How about 9AM your time? [14:36] PeterThoeny: i have a meeting starting 01:00pm local time / 20:00gmt [14:36] rodbeckstrom: also on press side, I want to mention that we have created a TWIKI group on FaceBook. Please come and join! [14:37] PeterThoeny: how about 18:00gmt? [14:37] Kobby: Yes, that's fine [14:37] rodbeckstrom: Here is the FaceBook link: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=6281654687 [14:37] Kobby: Which number are you at? [14:37] gmc: facebook? [14:37] rodbeckstrom: how many people here have FaceBook accounts today? [14:37] PeterThoeny: i can call you [14:38] Kobby: OK [14:38] PeterThoeny: let me know the number by email [14:38] rodbeckstrom: FaceBook is the company that just raised $240M from Microsoft at a $15 billion valuation. They are the leading online social networking site. [14:38] rodbeckstrom: based here in Palo Alto [14:38] rodbeckstrom: any other Facebook users out there? [14:38] rodbeckstrom: guess not :) [14:39] Kobby: I'm a facebooker [14:39] Kobby: And I've joined the group [14:39] rodbeckstrom: got it [14:39] rodbeckstrom: okay, on to the next item [14:39] PeterThoeny: ---++ 6. Usability [14:40] PeterThoeny: carlos is not here [14:40] rodbeckstrom: okay, does anyone else wish to comment? else perhaps handled in TWIKI release IRC [14:40] EugenMayer: ( Guys iam not that involved and expirienced as you, but if someone would state me the question, how to make TWiki more successfull and "new user friendly" i would give 2 answers : 1. Performance Tuning, 2. Reorganizing/Restructaring and filtering the twiki.org "main surfed" pages ( especially the horrable entry page and the navigation )) [14:41] rodbeckstrom: good, we'd like you to help :) [14:41] EugenMayer: As we got the point 1 today, will there be an itme on point 2 today ? [14:41] rodbeckstrom: Arthur is working on the landing pages [14:41] gmc: (i'm off now, cylcing home, will be back in 10 minutes) [14:41] PeterThoeny: eugen: please chime in in the homepage redesign :-) (the topic on twiki.org) [14:42] Lavr: Eugen. Performance is not really a marketing issue. But it is on the top 3 of the roadmap for TWiki. [14:43] rodbeckstrom: anything more or should we move to next item? [14:43] EugenMayer: Lavr: thats a point, but lets say, its a point where you can get the "its nearly perfect" state, what would make people talk about it more often and it would spread. [14:43] Lavr: The best you can do when 4.2 comes out is changing the searches from regex searches in meta data to query type searches. When TWiki 5.0 later comes with a new index/DB backend that will help kick some major performance ass. [14:43] PeterThoeny: ok. lets moe to the next item [14:43] PeterThoeny: ---++ 7. Merchandising [14:44] rodbeckstrom: last meeting we agreed to defer this for now [14:44] SvenDowideit: who's got the twiki numberplate :} [14:44] rodbeckstrom: for background, we simply pointed out that many people like the TWiki shirts we had made for the Rome Summit, for exmaple [14:44] rodbeckstrom: and other twiki prods might sell too [14:44] rodbeckstrom: one idea is to simply post logos and design at existing online shirt sellers online [14:45] rodbeckstrom: the other is to have someone open some sort of TWiki store [14:45] rodbeckstrom: but alas, not a top priority, so let's move on! [14:45] PeterThoeny: ---++ 8. AOB. [14:45] PeterThoeny: what is aob? [14:45] rodbeckstrom: Michael? [14:45] Kobby: Any Other Business [14:45] EugenMayer: I think, printed cups would make sense too. it is something you can find in offices all day [14:45] rodbeckstrom: good idea Eugen [14:45] Kobby: It must be a UK thing [14:46] rodbeckstrom: no, some of us Americans drink coffee by the bucket too, one small cup at a time [14:46] *** MartinCleaver has signed off IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). [14:46] Lavr: Eugen. See http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiRoadMap [14:46] Kobby: AOB was about the possibility of having a separate web for Marketing [14:46] EugenMayer: Its something you acutally can use for advertising in office..you often cant just wear a twiki-shirt [14:46] rodbeckstrom: how about having some good links to marketing pages on the new homepage, without doing a web? [14:46] rodbeckstrom: i think the goal is to make it clear there is a community marketing effort, no? [14:47] PeterThoeny: i think it is a question of proper navigation and categorization [14:47] PeterThoeny: all comunity collaboration is in the codev web [14:47] Kobby: Yes, I think that having some sort of page that is a hub to all other marketing material would be a good start [14:48] PeterThoeny: with a good navigation model and tagging/categorizing we can have well organized marketing content in the Codev web [14:48] Kobby: This could be a landing page for marketing [14:48] rodbeckstrom: good idea Kobby [14:48] Kobby: Maybe it would be good to have an overview of the current marketing activity posted on the page TWikiMarketing [14:49] PeterThoeny: i think we need to distinguish between marketing material for internal use (collabroation, in Codev web) and official marketing pages (in TWiki web as supplemental docs) [14:49] Kobby: Because it must be hard for outsiders to come along and try and figure out what's going on in marketing in Twiki.org [14:49] PeterThoeny: the homepage redesign defines the landing pages we will have [14:49] PeterThoeny: in the TWiki web [14:49] rodbeckstrom: I agree completo mundo :) [14:49] *** MartinCleaver has joined #twiki_marketing. [14:50] rodbeckstrom: kobby- how would you like to move next? [14:50] Lavr: I am sure this fits well with a couple of the personas that are defined. [14:50] Kobby: Not sure - I'll bounce some ideas off Peter tomorrow [14:51] PeterThoeny: yes, personas really help, i am so glad we make headway in this regard [14:51] Kobby: I'm not convinced of IRC as a medium to discuss things I'm afraid - I find it really confusing [14:51] PeterThoeny: Kobby: next marking meeting in second life? [14:51] rodbeckstrom: Kobby, it's all a bit new for me too, so I understand how you feel ! 8) [14:51] Kobby: Thanks [14:52] rodbeckstrom: BTW, Peter is serious [14:52] rodbeckstrom: He just saw a Second Life core dev team do a meeting within S.L. [14:52] rodbeckstrom: but alas, ild like to suggest we use the last 7 minutes in an open discussion [14:53] rodbeckstrom: any fun/miscellaneous TWiki thoughts/ideas/dreams? [14:53] Kobby: I think it would be good to talk about what you, Rod, startd talking about at the start of the meeting [14:53] Kobby: ie the positioning of TWiki as an application wiki [14:53] rodbeckstrom: I guess Sven's dream has now come true with the SUN T1000s :) [14:53] rodbeckstrom: yes, Kobby, please expand [14:54] rodbeckstrom: okay, on me [14:54] rodbeckstrom: there are two kinds of wikis in the world [14:54] Kobby: Well, I think you summed it up pretty well [14:54] rodbeckstrom: publishing (all wikis do this- more than 100 listed on www.wikimatrix.com) [14:54] rodbeckstrom: and progammable, application or structued wikis [14:54] rodbeckstrom: like Jotspot and Twiki [14:55] Kobby: Absolutely - but I think that we need to find the right word for this [14:55] rodbeckstrom: these are the only two which handle data structures, forms, templates and logic explictly [14:55] rodbeckstrom: yes, please help [14:55] Kobby: We had a long conversation about this int he last meeting [14:55] rodbeckstrom: we are looking for the right words [14:55] Kobby: We talked about "structured" - good points: We have an entry on wikipedia [14:55] rodbeckstrom: we have tried language, but come to this conclusion [14:55] rodbeckstrom: it's a bit like sex [14:55] Kobby: Bad points - no one knows what it means [14:55] PeterThoeny: some other wikis have a fixed forms app, where fields can be customzied, but this does not bring the flexibility of a true structured wiki [14:55] rodbeckstrom: the US Supreme Court had a key trial 20 or so years ago [14:56] rodbeckstrom: the question was what material constitutes "pornography" [14:56] Kobby: "programmable" - more easier to understand but the word programming may put some people off [14:56] rodbeckstrom: after weeks of arguments, there was not agreement on the definition [14:56] rodbeckstrom: finally, one supreme court justice stated "I know pornography when I see it" [14:56] rodbeckstrom: I think the same is true of TWiki [14:56] gmc: re [14:57] rodbeckstrom: you can only understand the power of it's programmability (or whatever you want to call it) when you SEE IT [14:57] PeterThoeny: the challenge is that it is not easy to discribe, yet alone come up with a word [14:57] rodbeckstrom: this is why we feel the TWiki video contest is sooooooooo important [14:57] Kobby: I agree with that - but you still have to come up with a word/set of terms [14:57] PeterThoeny: it is easy to demonstrate in a few minutes with real world apps [14:57] rodbeckstrom: but at the same time, we need smart marketing people like you to help us describe it in words :) [14:58] Kobby: Well, I don't know if words are enough - like you say, you need to see it to understand it [14:58] ArthurClemens: there might be something in passive vs. active [14:58] ArthurClemens: "make it work" [14:58] rodbeckstrom: it's a good Zen challenge [14:58] Kobby: Yes, Arthur [14:58] rodbeckstrom: a bit of ying, a bit of yang [14:58] gmc: about seeing 'progammability' in action.. [14:59] rodbeckstrom: or was that the Tao? [14:59] PeterThoeny: btw, that is why i showed some sample apps realy on in the tutorial for wikisym, in a few minutes [14:59] gmc: i quite liked the idea of Peter's presentation.. where you start out with a simple table and add more and more functionality gradually [14:59] rodbeckstrom: time is up [14:59] Kobby: How about "Dynamic Wiki" or "Active wiki" [14:59] gmc: yikes, i was just getting into it :) [14:59] rodbeckstrom: we can continue, but all attendees are off the hook :) and facilitation is over [14:59] PeterThoeny: (delete "in a few minutes", wrong paste) [14:59] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiPresentation2007x10x22 [14:59] rodbeckstrom: thanks to all, just keep rolling Koen! [14:59] Kobby: Yes, and me! [15:00] Lavr: What struck me at WikiSym was that those that were there as "customers" mostly had visions of "information sharing" or "knowledge sharing". Few had an expectation of making business applications. [15:00] rodbeckstrom: that's why i'm here- because TWiki is so cool- it has REAL LEGS underneath it [15:00] ArthurClemens: Vital wiki [15:00] Lavr: Yes. It was very clear at WikiSym that TWiki was very unique as a Wiki. [15:00] PeterThoeny: and yet, after 6 mont hof deployment many realize that a structured wiki has a lot of horse power [15:01] Kobby: Lavr - that's right - and when you read blogs about wikis/articles about wikis NONE of them talk about applications [15:01] rodbeckstrom: unlike lame publishing wikis masquerading as enterpirse wikis [15:01] rodbeckstrom: there are dozens of those out there :) [15:01] Kobby: So this is the thing that we have to emphasize! [15:01] PeterThoeny: so, how can you sell something where people do not yet know that they need it in the future? [15:01] rodbeckstrom: okay gentlemen, get your video cameras ready!!!! [15:02] rodbeckstrom: A great Chinese philosopher once said [15:02] Lavr: This is TWiki's marketing problem number 1. Our potential customers simply do not know what power TWiki has under the hood. [15:02] rodbeckstrom: I hear and I forget [15:02] rodbeckstrom: I see and I remember [15:02] rodbeckstrom: I do and I understand [15:02] rodbeckstrom: Just Do It! [15:02] PeterThoeny: here is what i tried in the presentation: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiPresentation2007x10x22#Slide_15_Enterprise_Collaboratio [15:02] PeterThoeny: and next slide [15:03] Lavr: The short presentation I did on our ISO9000 application and our weekly report application really created a lot of interest at WikiSym. [15:03] PeterThoeny: position twiki as an enterprise wiki, aka enterprise web 2.0 environment [15:03] rodbeckstrom: and it was fabulous at the Rome Summit too. What you are doing at Motorola is amazing [15:03] Lavr: And also the latest demo apps Peter had in the presentation were received well at WikiSym. [15:03] PeterThoeny: where the wiki app capability is an integral part of it [15:04] rodbeckstrom: when I tell people that ISO 9000 reporting and management systems have been built in TWiki, they are mind blown [15:04] PeterThoeny: it = web 2.0 in the enterprise [15:04] SvenDowideit: rodbeckstrom, [15:04] SvenDowideit: you can say there are many [15:04] rodbeckstrom: Plus BTW, TWiki is also the only wiki designed for Sarbanes Oxley Compliance or SOX [15:04] rodbeckstrom: why? [15:04] SvenDowideit: wikiring have sold them into companies [15:04] Lavr: At WikiSym there were 4 main groups. Those that wanted to make Wikis like Wikipedia, those that wanted to use it for education, those that were tech nerds, and TWiki. [15:05] SvenDowideit: and I built one in a few workplaces [15:05] rodbeckstrom: Because TWiki tracks every single touch on the system- [15:05] rodbeckstrom: every screen edit [15:05] rodbeckstrom: every page view [15:05] rodbeckstrom: every meta-data change [15:05] SvenDowideit: the iso inspectors love it [15:05] rodbeckstrom: So Sven, you have used TWiki for ISO 9000 too? [15:05] SvenDowideit: especially as ours displays the last authorised version by default [15:05] rodbeckstrom: bingo [15:05] SvenDowideit: y [15:06] SvenDowideit: so everyone can edit, only certain people / groups can authorise [15:06] rodbeckstrom: so since TWiki is the only real SOX compliant wiki, doesn't that mean the US government should mandate it's use? [15:06] SvenDowideit: yep [15:06] rodbeckstrom: or maybe that is why the Brazilian government and others use TWiki so heavily! [15:07] SvenDowideit: Lavr, are you working towards publshing your iso app? [15:07] gmc: SOX? [15:07] SvenDowideit: USanian thing [15:07] SvenDowideit: their companies can't work ethically [15:07] Lavr: Yes. I plan that Sven. I am working on publishing the Project Management Apps right now. And will follow up with the ISO system [15:07] SvenDowideit: so they've been given socks by the government [15:08] SvenDowideit: cool [15:08] Lavr: The ISO system is not really much of an application as such. It is more a process combined with a wiki. [15:08] rodbeckstrom: TWIKI = THE REAL ENTEPRISE WIKI, don't be fooled by pretenders [15:08] SvenDowideit: guess we should publish ours too then [15:08] rodbeckstrom: the more the merrier Sven [15:08] SvenDowideit: its a plugin plus application topics to help manage the iso process [15:09] Lavr: The only reason I have not done it yet is that it is some work to create a set of dummy ISO procedures to show a working model. [15:09] gmc: talking about facebook btw, shouldn't we all hug on linkedin too?!? [15:09] SvenDowideit: so most users don't need to know the process [15:09] SvenDowideit: Lavr, y zactly [15:09] rodbeckstrom: good idea gmc [15:10] SvenDowideit: wow [15:10] SvenDowideit: HP just partnered with wetpaint? [15:10] SvenDowideit: when is TWIKI.NET going to launch/release??? [15:10] *** Kobby has signed off IRC ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.8/2007100816]"). [15:11] PeterThoeny: i have to sign off (other meeting) [15:11] PeterThoeny: lets continue discussion in #twiki [15:11] SvenDowideit: hehe, me too :) [15:15] rodbeckstrom: heah Koen, I have created a group for TWiki on Linked In, should be live within a few days, pending approval