[12:59] PeterThoeny: hi all! [13:00] PeterThoeny: i sent an e-mail yesterday to twiki-dev [13:00] DavidAllen: Hello everyone :-) [13:00] Rod: Hi Kenneth, Steffen, Sven, Crawford and all- greetings from Sunnyvale! [13:01] PeterThoeny: i posted a personal announcement at TWiki:Codev/TWikiDotNet [13:01] twikibot: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiDotNet [13:02] PeterThoeny: twikibot: last seen cdot [13:02] CDot: CDot is here [13:03] CDot: doesn't look like many other people are awake, however [13:03] PeterThoeny: no earthquake here either :-) [13:05] *** HaraldJoer1 has joined #twiki. [13:06] PeterThoeny: i wondering if there are any questions/feedback on the new twiki.net venture [13:06] ArthurClemens: My daughter just has just come back from EuroDisney [13:06] PeterThoeny: i would like to introduce rod beckstrom, our ceo [13:06] CDot: Hi Rod! [13:07] PeterThoeny: his handle is "Rod" [13:07] Rod: Hi Crawford, Arthur and team! [13:07] *** Lavr_ has joined #twiki. [13:07] Rod: It's great to be here [13:07] PeterThoeny: rod is the co-author of the "starfish and the spider" [13:07] Lavr_: Good evening [13:07] Rod: Hi Kenneth [13:07] PeterThoeny: a highly interesting book on decentralized organizations (something we are) [13:07] Lavr_: Hi Rod [13:08] SvenDowideit_: good evein (late - sorry, reading that 'damnable Potter book') [13:08] ktwilight: :) [13:08] Rod: Kenneth I'm looking forward to seeing you and others on the team in Rome on Aug 16 [13:08] SvenDowideit_: tis a loverly stormy night for it here [13:08] CDot: SvenDowideit_: is he dead yet? [13:09] SvenDowideit_: worse luck - not yet [13:09] PeterThoeny: see info on starfish & spider book at http://www.beckstrom.com/ [13:09] Lavr_: I ordered my plane tickets this weekend. I will be flying in Wed night and out Saturday night. The Friday flight was way to early. [13:10] ArthurClemens: Hi all [13:10] Rod: Plus we should have a good dinner in rome on Friday- [13:10] Lavr_: Yeah. So that is perfect. [13:11] PeterThoeny: let me introduce also DavidAllen, our product manager, and also the author of the book windows to linux migration toolkit [13:11] CDot: Lavr_: you managed a Saturday flight? Lucky. I have to stay through Sunday. [13:12] PeterThoeny: http://www.syngress.com/catalog/?pid=3050 [13:12] Lavr_: Yeah. And I only had to pay 1800 DKK for the trip. And that is with SAS. [13:12] Rod: For those interested in coming to the Rome TWiki Community Summit, here is the link; http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiCommunitySummitRome2007 [13:13] Rod: 8 people are signed up, We have heard that Colas is coming, but he is not registered yet. [13:13] PeterThoeny: we already have a good number of folks joining the community event [13:13] PeterThoeny: hope to get some more! :-) [13:13] CDot: so, I'm curious; doesn't anyone have questions for peter and rod re: twiki.net? Or is the shock still penetrating? [13:14] PeterThoeny: LOL [13:14] ArthurClemens: To Peter and Rod: I think you might want to elaborate on the concept of decentralization regarding to TWIKI.NET [13:14] ktwilight: i'm fuzzy on its purpose. [13:14] Rod: Hmmm... [13:14] ArthurClemens: or is there any? [13:15] Rod: First I'll respond to ktwilight's question- the purpose is to provide a certified and supported version of TWiki for corporate and other users [13:16] CDot: Rod: one for later; what exactly does "certified" mean in this context? [13:16] ktwilight: +1 [13:16] Rod: Also, we are already making initial investments in enhancing OS Twiki- like making a better skin, and we are looking at enhanincing the WSYWIG capabilities [13:16] Rod: Certified means that we will test a version of the product and stand behind it with support for customers [13:16] Rod: This means we will also certify some, but not all plug-ins [13:16] Rod: for example.. [13:17] Rod: with new plug ins showing up every month, some users would like someone to test some of the plug-ins out there, so they know which to implement [13:17] HaraldJoer1: Does "support" mean "support contract" on a subscripion base? [13:18] Rod: Yes [13:18] *** CarloSchulz has joined #twiki. [13:18] PeterThoeny: i envision a plugin certification program where you run unit tests and performance tests to certify a plugin [13:19] Rod: It's a lot like Linux and Red Hat, most customers self support around Linux but many are willing to pay to get a standardized, support agreement around a certified versionproduct [13:20] HaraldJoer1: That would need a couple of dedicated troubleshooters, wouldn't it? [13:20] Lavr_: I constantly get asked to install additional plugins by my users and I often say no because I know that it is likely that getting dependent on it will mean that I cannot upgrade TWiki. So certified plugins is for sure adding value. Both for those that pay for the additional support and those that just see the certification as a quality stamp [13:20] PeterThoeny: yes, we need troubleshooters [13:20] Rod: in response to the starfish and decentralized question... here are some ideas.... [13:21] PeterThoeny: we have a limted budget, and will ramp up over time [13:21] Rod: First I have had experience building more than 5 private source software companies and TWIKI.NET is my first open source one [13:21] Rod: One of the things I love about TWiki is that it is open source [13:21] PeterThoeny: first with a support person, and by engaging some of the community to do hourly support for us [13:21] Rod: That means we have to figure out how the company can be a good citizen- a part of the community [13:22] Rod: I see the company very much as being a "catalyst" for the TWiki community- much as we describe catalysts in our book [13:23] Rod: the role of a catalyst is to help make transformations happen, without being the leader, but rather a facilitator [13:23] Rod: the open source community itself is a huge decentralized network and we are tapping into a part of it right now [13:23] Rod: anyone who wants to come here can. anyone who wants to contribute can. [13:24] Rod: We benefit as a company from the huge decentralized network of open source developers and users of twiki and in turn we plan to contribute as well [13:25] Rod: we can contribute to strategy but we only participate in that process [13:25] Rod: these are at least some opening "starfish" thoughts. there are many more that apply to how we are doing things internally here [13:25] Lavr_: I think the two key elements that the community will benefit from are... [13:25] Lavr_: 1. Allow people to work full time for period on TWiki. [13:26] Lavr_: which enables bigger things to happen [13:26] Lavr_: 2. Giving us much better ears to what the customers say and think and need [13:26] Rod: exactly [13:28] Rod: we are chuckling on this end- David, Peter & I are together and they are saying "oh no, look what happens when the author starts writing on the IRC channel- he can't stop!" [13:28] PeterThoeny: personally i think what twiki lacks most is visibility in the press [13:29] ArthurClemens: related - it would be interesting to see if a catalyst organization can move managements to use TWiki [13:29] ktwilight: success doesn't necessary involve press [13:29] PeterThoeny: if you look at the press coverage of twiki and compare that to the 60K+ installations [13:29] PeterThoeny: you see an untold story [13:29] *** hednod has joined #twiki. [13:29] hednod: how do I set my initial admin user? [13:29] ktwilight: when people use a product, when they like it, they'll talk about it. [13:29] Rod: Arthur- please expand your thoiughts [13:29] ktwilight: this begs the question, why aren't people talking about twiki? [13:29] hednod: I seem to have missed the part where I do taht [13:29] PeterThoeny: i think we will get a lot of buz [13:30] PeterThoeny: by announcing the company at linuxworld in second week of august [13:30] SvenDowideit_: hednod - come to #twiki_release [13:30] SvenDowideit_: meeting on at mo [13:30] ktwilight: hednod, you would need to create a new user, go to TWiki/TWikiAdminGroup, edit by adding yourself as the admin and save the topic. voila. [13:30] hednod: I can edit that without having admin permissions yet [13:30] hednod: ? [13:30] ktwilight: there has been some press released in the past on twiki IIRC. it should by right be a catalyst, but it didn't create the expected viral effect. why? [13:30] SvenDowideit_: yes - its not secured [13:31] hednod: /TWiki/bin/view/TWiki/TWikiAdmingroup [13:31] hednod: like so? [13:31] *** OliverKrueger has joined #twiki. [13:31] SvenDowideit_: yup [13:31] OliverKrueger: HelloWorld [13:31] CarloSchulz: moin [13:31] ktwilight: i think we should ask ourselves, what makes the people talk about twiki. [13:31] ArthurClemens: I think TWiki is still part of an underground movement. It is technical and nerdy for most. [13:31] PeterThoeny: my concern is that with increased traffic twiki.org will be crawling [13:31] ktwilight: google didn't kick off to the world by having press releases. they created a product that enabled people to talk about. [13:31] CarloSchulz: definetly nerdy [13:32] ktwilight: PeterThoeny, then slap in a better server, distribute the load, etc. [13:32] hednod: whats the syntax of the entry I need in it [13:32] CarloSchulz: google is easy to use. that's why people like [13:32] Rod: Arthur, I agree. I think that's why we should put part of our effort on making it 1) more attractive and 2) much easier to install and 3) easier to use [13:32] ArthurClemens: The things that a wiki - and TWiki - can do for an organization is not highlighted enough [13:32] PeterThoeny: yes, we are looking into a better server for twiki.org [13:32] CDot: what makes people talk is when there is new stuff; not necessarily new code, but new ideas, new approaches, new applications [13:33] ArthurClemens: we as a community have been bad in restructuring twiki.org content [13:33] SvenDowideit_: ah, yes, wrt server, oliver and i were going to spend some time later this week on it [13:33] SvenDowideit_: we have some ideas on distributing the load a bit [13:33] OliverKrueger: btw: my box is back online. [13:33] ArthurClemens: so the site is really an unattractive mess - we all know it [13:33] SvenDowideit_: excerlent :) [13:33] PeterThoeny: multiple servers? [13:33] CarloSchulz: i think arthur is right. I took me some month to get used to twiki.org [13:33] SvenDowideit_: yep [13:34] ktwilight: yup [13:34] SvenDowideit_: start with pub.twiki.org [13:34] ArthurClemens: not with trash.twiki.org? [13:34] SvenDowideit_: and then work up to geo dns'ing guest view [13:34] PeterThoeny: caching? [13:34] ktwilight: IMHO there isn't a need to have a new organisation or new company, we just need a new movement to solve those things that most have raised [13:34] SvenDowideit_: twikicache needs work yet [13:35] ArthurClemens: It would be great if that would increase the community [13:35] SvenDowideit_: it would help alot to reduce the amount of topics, and to simplify y [13:35] ktwilight: +1 [13:35] ArthurClemens: hey, we're not slashdot here :-) [13:35] HaraldJoer1: The TWiki.net company can add confidence to the durability of support based on subscription contracts [13:36] SvenDowideit_: you AC you [13:36] Rod: what is an AC? [13:36] CarloSchulz: Arthur Clemens [13:36] SvenDowideit_: anonymous coward [13:36] ArthurClemens: that is a me [13:36] hednod: hah [13:36] hednod: I can't create it [13:36] SvenDowideit_: a comment left by someone not logged in :) [13:36] hednod: says I don't have access to create it [13:36] ktwilight: what i'm afraid is, by having a .net company, it'll deviate from the current issues. sprouting out the attitude of "you gotta pay to get it right" [13:36] hednod: I need access in order to create it so I ahve access =p [13:37] SvenDowideit_: mmm, i thought 4.1.2 TWikiAdminGroup was not locekd down [13:37] SvenDowideit_: hednod - you can edit the topic using a text editor [13:37] SvenDowideit_: its just a file [13:37] hednod: which dir under data, TWiki, or Main [13:37] HaraldJoer1: ktwilight: Not you gotta pay to get it, though [13:37] SvenDowideit_: oo, though - have you registered [13:37] ArthurClemens: ktwilight: that would be a bad strategy [13:37] SvenDowideit_: data/Main/TWikiAdminGroup.txt [13:37] ktwilight: ArthurClemens, 'xactly [13:37] ArthurClemens: it would mean nothing get solved anymore [13:37] Lavr_: kt - we will still be many volunteers on the product - myself included - so it will not mean that you have to pay to get help [13:38] SvenDowideit_: hednod - you need to register yourself, and log in as that user - then add that user to the admingroup [13:38] SvenDowideit_: there is no canned admin yet (i added one in 4.2) [13:38] hednod: I got it now thanks [13:38] CDot: ktwilight: I don't think that picture is right. Other open-source offerings have "companion companies" that work alongside the OSS without too much friction. [13:38] Rod: we will need everyone's help to move this forward. we will do our little piece, but the community is the powerhouse [13:38] hednod: I had a user already just iddn't know how to add him to the admin group localy [13:38] ktwilight: Lavr, not exactly what i mean. i know that the community will continue to support. [13:39] PeterThoeny: ktwilight: that is a valid concern, one i have too [13:39] PeterThoeny: it is a qustion of balance [13:39] ArthurClemens: I mean (quoting from Rod's book) a decentralized organization needs an ideology to survive [13:39] SvenDowideit_: Rod & Peter - is TWIKI.NET intending on maintaining a branch [13:39] SvenDowideit_: or rolling back its certified versions to be the OSS version [13:39] ktwilight: the community is already small. can it be guaranteed that there won't be much friction due to time? [13:39] PeterThoeny: redhat/fedora has a good relationship/division of labor [13:40] SvenDowideit_: as that removes kt's concern somwhat [13:40] ktwilight: of course, but they have many employees, and a big community on FC [13:40] ktwilight: both of which twiki don't have. [13:40] PeterThoeny: on branching, we have not fleshed out details, but we want to stay as close as possible to the open source release [13:40] SvenDowideit_: mmm, FC is very recent history wrt redhat [13:41] SvenDowideit_: the main reason redhat got this far, is they have rather a large group of very centeral developers on staff [13:41] Rod: i think one of the questions is how can we all best grow the community to bring in more contributors? [13:41] ktwilight: 'xactly. good question Rod [13:41] PeterThoeny: there are other communities that work very closely with the company [13:42] PeterThoeny: ubuntu is one and the same it seems like [13:42] ktwilight: we can't be compared to large communities/companies. that's just very risky. [13:42] Rod: one small step we are helping with is organizing the first ever TWiki community Summit in Rome [13:42] CarloSchulz: i hope so [13:43] Rod: one great example of an active community that has grown quickly and with a good decentralized structure is the Ubutu/Canonical community [13:44] Rod: They have 2 user meetings every year where community members get together and prioritize devellopments for the next release [13:44] Rod: those meetings break down into various subgroups [13:45] CarloSchulz: typo3 is quite good in organizing their community [13:45] CarloSchulz: they even have a snowboard tour [13:45] Rod: I have heard that it is a very productive, fluid movement [13:45] CarloSchulz: yep [13:45] PeterThoeny: can you elaborate CarloSchulz? [13:45] CarloSchulz: i try to [13:45] Rod: would love to hear more about typo3, esp. the snowboarding trip :) [13:45] *** tonyH has joined #twiki. [13:45] CarloSchulz: friends of mine run a magazine a bout open source and typo3 [13:46] Rod: cool. maybe he can write about TWiki too! [13:46] CarloSchulz: sure. I'll ask them [13:46] PeterThoeny: yes, Yes, YES! [13:47] PeterThoeny: back to the press coverage [13:47] PeterThoeny: we can do much better [13:47] Rod: makes me want to wax my Johann snowboard. [13:47] PeterThoeny: we are now mentioned in the press may be 3 to 5 times a month [13:47] CarloSchulz: i'll start a topic in codev with some infos about typo3 and how they organize their community [13:48] Lavr_: What is the commercial part of Typo3? [13:48] PeterThoeny: compare that to socialtext or confluence, they are mentioned a magnitude more [13:48] PeterThoeny: but each has "just" 3000 installs [13:48] PeterThoeny: vs 60k installs of twiki [13:48] Rod: TWiki is super popular with 4 million users, and the search volume is very high - see: http://www.google.com/trends?q=twiki [13:49] Rod: but it is not growing fast enough!!! the good news is we can all do something about that... [13:49] CarloSchulz: well, typo3 is a csm and many people run their business on consulting around typo3 [13:49] CarloSchulz: a cms [13:49] Rod: for example, TWiki is much more searched on Google than Atlassian: http://www.google.com/trends?q=twiki%2C+atlassian&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0 [13:49] PeterThoeny: yes, i believe on the pr side is where twiki.net can help ou the community most [13:50] Rod: But we should have 20 times more searches given our huge installed base... [13:50] Rod: here is my dream for TWiki [13:50] CarloSchulz: twiki needs a prettier face to attract more people [13:50] Lavr_: Many people have tried to live from Consulting round TWiki. And few have succeded to get anything else than pocket money. [13:50] *** TJCRI has signed off IRC ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.5/2007071317]"). [13:50] ArthurClemens: perhaps people are searching for buck rogers [13:51] Rod: I dream of growing the TWiki community from 4 million users to 8 million to 16, 32 to 100 million over 7 years [13:51] ktwilight: i once thought it's just the pretty face. but it goes beyond that, especially the installation phase to get it up and running, among other things. [13:51] Rod: It is possible. We just need to make it look better (agreed Carlos!), easy to install and easy to use [13:51] PeterThoeny: and here is the twiki and socialtext trend, http://www.google.com/trends?q=twiki%2C+socialtext [13:51] CarloSchulz: world supremacy ;-) [13:52] Lavr_: Many installations means more business. Even if only 1% chose a subscribtion solution [13:52] Rod: Linux & apache are the big winners in the server market [13:52] PeterThoeny: key point is to bring twiki to the masses, e.g. out of the eng realm [13:52] Rod: TWiki can be the winner in the wiki market [13:53] ktwilight: so, what's the plan? [13:53] PeterThoeny: that can be done with ease of installation, ease of upgrade, easy of use and a sexy skin [13:53] Rod: great products which are free and which appear in new markets have every chance to define the market [13:53] Lavr_: TWiki's problem is that it is a geek tool for geeks. ---++ header *strong* _italic_ geek stuff [13:53] CarloSchulz: yep but it shouldn't look like the "eierlegende Wollmilchsau" http://www.pollux.franken.de/KNF/images/eier-legende-wollmilchsau.jpg [13:53] Rod: agreed Kenneth, so let's fix that first! [13:54] Rod: I say -Geek +cool [13:54] OliverKrueger: skip tml? ;) [13:54] PeterThoeny: tml is not the problem per se [13:54] Lavr_: TML is still good for maing a TWiki App. But the most basic editing has to be for everyone. [13:55] ktwilight: i think we should question/answer the "how" and "what" [13:55] PeterThoeny: but a good wysiwyg editor is paramount [13:55] OliverKrueger: The conversion between tml and other things is the prob, I know. ;) [13:55] CarloSchulz: yes. wysiwyg and a nice skin which does not scare first time users away [13:55] PeterThoeny: absolutley! [13:56] Rod: exacto Carlo, I mean genau! [13:56] PeterThoeny: we have a very sexy skin in work [13:56] Lavr_: But we are still bound to use browsers with their limitations. So a good new Wisiwyg solution is probably a number of technologies that in combination can do the job. [13:56] ktwilight: i think we have talked about this for quite sometime [13:56] CarloSchulz: i got asked "what means "more" so many times that i split it up into move, delete and rename [13:56] PeterThoeny: ArthurClemens is helping us our creating the skin, designed by a professional [13:56] ktwilight: and i'm glad that ArthurClemens started to make changes on Pattern [13:56] PeterThoeny: ArthurClemens: do you want to share some thoughts on the skin? [13:56] CarloSchulz: sounds good [13:57] CarloSchulz: yeah, sure [13:57] CarloSchulz: some of the terminology is based on an understanding of linux unix [13:57] CarloSchulz: if i dont know about that.. [13:57] ArthurClemens: the certified skin is really smooth and sexy looking [13:57] CarloSchulz: i dont know that moving something is the same as deleting or renaming [13:58] ArthurClemens: while at the same time very editable [13:58] PeterThoeny: arthur, do you want to post an [off] link of the skin? [13:58] ktwilight: CarloSchulz, same here until i was told. [13:58] ArthurClemens: (not looking like a finished web page) [13:58] CarloSchulz: looking forward to see it [13:59] ArthurClemens: [off] ***** [14:00] PeterThoeny: the skin is not finished yet, some elements are missing, but mostly it's there :-) [14:00] Lavr_: Nice looking [14:00] CarloSchulz: that's much better than patternskin :-) cool [14:00] ArthurClemens: and [14:00] ArthurClemens: [off] ***** [14:00] ArthurClemens: well, it is mostly pattern skin [14:01] ArthurClemens: in structure [14:01] CarloSchulz: but it does not look like that [14:01] ktwilight: is it possible to revamp the structure as well? [14:01] ArthurClemens: design is a profession :-) [14:01] CarloSchulz: what about edit [14:01] ktwilight: it's not the colours and themes that makes the difference sometimes. it's more of the usability. [14:01] ktwilight: ex-yahoo vs google is a good example. [14:02] Rod: I think the usability is already really good, it has just looked a bit raw and techie IMHO [14:02] PeterThoeny: the designer is of high caliber, he designed the klm website if i understand correctly [14:02] Lavr_: Needs some work. IE7 took 1 minute to load it and the result is not pretty [14:03] PeterThoeny: we are aware of the performance issue and will fix that [14:03] CarloSchulz: what about a top site navigation instead of left handed? [14:03] PeterThoeny: the current skin is less than a week old [14:03] PeterThoeny: this is a preview [14:03] Lavr_: Sure I just wanted to tell Arthur in case he had not tried IE7 yet [14:04] CarloSchulz: have the webs on top and the functionalties on the left so they don'nt get mixed up [14:04] Rod: good point Kenneth, it should run well on all three major browsers (IE, FireFox & Safari) [14:04] ArthurClemens: Lavr: I have tested on IE7 as well [14:04] Lavr_: it is a cruel world. Even between IE6 and IE7 there are differences. Even between IE6 and IE6 there are differences. [14:05] Rod: BTW, I just tried it on Safari on a Mac and it looks great (as well as on FireFox on the Mac) [14:06] Lavr_: I have had severe issues with machines at work that all use the same IE6 but some little detail of some addons made the difference between working and crashing. [14:06] Rod: but in Safari for some reason the fonts all appear a bit large, but that may be my settings or preferences [14:07] tonyH: hello Peter, I am trying to add the Topic history that is at the bottom of the topic to the top of the page where the 'Edit' 'WYSIWYG' buttons are. can you give me some hint as to where I would go to edit? [14:07] Rod: I just changed the font size in my Safari preferences and it now looks good [14:07] ktwilight: i heard em is a nice measurement compared to px [14:08] PeterThoeny: i just checked the skin on my iphone (safari), looks great! [14:10] CarloSchulz: when is release date for the new skin? [14:10] PeterThoeny: tonyH: i'd start at TWiki:TWiki/PatternSkinCustomization [14:10] twikibot: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/TWiki/PatternSkinCustomization [14:10] Rod: I have to sign off in a minute. I'm really looking forward to seeing many of you in Rome!!! Ciao! [14:11] CDot: presumably that skin will only be on the commercial version? [14:11] tonyH: PeterThoeny, thanks [14:11] CarloSchulz: oh, it's for public? [14:11] CarloSchulz: not for public? [14:11] Rod: CDot- we intend to share it with the communiy by posting on twiki.org [14:11] CDot: nice one :-) [14:11] CarloSchulz: sweet [14:11] Rod: its for both public and Certified ;) [14:12] Rod: here is our simple mission- TWiki Everywhere! [14:12] Rod: making the product look better is just one small step! [14:12] PeterThoeny: here is my personal mission: [14:12] PeterThoeny: i have seen how wind river transformed as a company from e-mail centric communication to wiki centric communication [14:12] PeterThoeny: a silent revolution [14:13] PeterThoeny: my mission is to repeat that, in all types of organizations, all over the world! [14:14] ArthurClemens: I need to sign off [14:14] PeterThoeny: my wikis for dummies book will help, as well as twiki.org and twiki.net [14:14] ArthurClemens: talk later! [14:14] *** ArthurClemens has signed off IRC (). [14:14] Rod: thanks Arthur and all- ciao- rod [14:14] CarloSchulz: bye [14:14] PeterThoeny: ok, i need to sign off as well [14:15] PeterThoeny: was a great chat! [14:15] SvenDowideit_: later guys :) [14:15] SvenDowideit_: night all [14:15] OliverKrueger: bye Sven [14:15] PeterThoeny: i hope we can build up the momentum quickly! [14:15] Lavr_: Well. As the non-TWiki.net part of the community I can only say that I am thrilled and truely happy to see this injection of resources and energy and I am convinced that with great people like Rod and Peter driving it we will all win. [14:15] CDot: thanks guys! [14:16] OliverKrueger: bye Peter [14:16] CarloSchulz: we should attach this discussion somewhere [14:16] CDot: CarloSchulz: it's in the logs [14:16] CarloSchulz: ahh, sure [14:16] CDot: just paste a link to the log into a topic somewhere [14:16] OliverKrueger: self-ref: http://koala.ilog.fr/twikiirc/bin/irclogger_log/twiki?date=2007-07-23,Mon :) [14:17] CDot: spot on [14:17] CarloSchulz: good sleep everybody [14:17] PeterThoeny: let me attach that also to TWiki:Codev/TWikiDotNet for later reference [14:17] twikibot: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiDotNet [14:17] Lavr_: Good night. I will go back and play with my new 37" LCD TV. [14:17] PeterThoeny: thank you very Very VERY much for your support! [14:17] DavidAllen: Thanks everyone :-) [14:18] Lavr_: which means that now my wife will want new furniture in the living room sigh! [14:18] CDot: Lavr: 37"? That's a very middle-aged size >:-) [14:18] PeterThoeny: signing off now, ttyl