Subject: KampalaMeetingLog-2018-03-01.txt Date: March 1, 2018 at 4:06:38 PM PST ---++ #twiki_release on IRC [14:59:17]   Good evening / morning! [14:59:39]   hi HideyoImazu-san & HaraldJoerg1! [14:59:40]   Good evening, Harald [14:59:50]   Good afternoon, Peter [15:00:03]   we can switch to slack as usual [15:00:09]   sure ---++ TWiki # release on Slack himazu [3:00 PM] what’s new? peterthoeny [3:00 PM] hi @himazu & @haj not much on my side haj [3:01 PM] Good evening / morning (again) :slightly_smiling_face: peterthoeny [3:01 PM] :slightly_smiling_face: you must have it cold in germany haj [3:01 PM] Yes, but the worst is over peterthoeny [3:01 PM] the other morning my mom had -22c in her village in the swiss alps (edited) haj [3:02 PM] Tomorrow we have a chance of over 0c during the day himazu [3:02 PM] that’s severe where in Germany are you, Harald? peterthoeny [3:02 PM] fortunately good insulation and good heating at home haj [3:02 PM] I'm in Munich Not as much snow as in northern Germany, but on the other hand, people here are used to snow peterthoeny [3:03 PM] beer!!! himazu [3:04 PM] I didn’t know Munich is that cold - it’s cold to me living in Tokyo where it rarely goes below zero peterthoeny [3:04 PM] japanese beer companies send their brewers to germany for education himazu [3:05 PM] there are a lot of micro breweries in Japan these days haj [3:05 PM] We have the only university to teach brewing beer... students come from all over the world peterthoeny [3:05 PM] ah, some news on my side. my son is at the local university; he initiated a student program for rockets called HARP - high altitude rocket project first vessel should go 200k feet he has the team assembled, dedicated folks he is now looking for funding himazu [3:07 PM] what will the backers/supports get? peterthoeny [3:07 PM] pat on the back well, he is looking at companies that want to promote stem haj [3:08 PM] Tell them the rockets are looking for russian spy satellites... in the current climate, this could get the dollars rolling himazu [3:08 PM] I wonder if Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos is interested peterthoeny [3:09 PM] i also have a contact at kqed, the local national public radio station, asked if they would be interested in a documentary we asked the investor of spacex, we’ll see time check: +10min http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/KampalaReleaseMeeting2018x03x01 already march! himazu [3:10 PM] or Richard Branson, the found of Virgin Galacitc? founder peterthoeny [3:10 PM] we have no connection to r branson or j besos (edited) himazu [3:11 PM] giving them a cold call won’t hurt you, right? peterthoeny [3:11 PM] i guess not himazu [3:12 PM] KEQD guys may have a clue peterthoeny [3:12 PM] anyway, little money yea himazu [3:12 PM] for the kids, interaction with those “big shots” in the commercial space companies may be really inspirational peterthoeny [3:12 PM] true himazu [3:13 PM] that should be way more precious than little money peterthoeny [3:13 PM] indeed himazu [3:13 PM] and a KQED documentary would be better peterthoeny [3:13 PM] little money, as in little money needed yes, that would be really nice are you familiar with kqed? (edited) himazu [3:14 PM] I used to listen to some KQED radio programs over the Internet peterthoeny [3:14 PM] i listen every day on mobile let’s start with the meeting Adenda: 1. Feature Requests for Kampala Release 2. Extensions 3. Review Urgent and Not So Urgent Bugs 4. TWiki Release Discussion 5. Miscellaneous ---++ 1. Feature Requests for Kampala Release http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/WebChanges no changes since last time anything? haj [3:17 PM] I don't have news peterthoeny [3:17 PM] ---++ 2. Extensions http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/WebChanges also no changes since last time ---++ 3. Review Urgent and Not So Urgent Bugs http://develop.twiki.org/do/view/Bugs/WebChanges same here thanks @haj for following up on eliminating monitor.pm (edited) haj [3:19 PM] That was pretty easy peterthoeny [3:19 PM] and for working on TWikiDevContrib haj [3:19 PM] That stuff is still under heavy construction peterthoeny [3:19 PM] do you have a hard hat on? haj [3:20 PM] Sure peterthoeny [3:20 PM] 安全第一 safety first :slightly_smiling_face: himazu [3:20 PM] that’s still ubiquitous at construction sites in Japan peterthoeny [3:21 PM] yes, i remember, you see it everywhere at construction sites haj [3:21 PM] BTW, this is why I love git... I can easily create branches and commit, having several in parallel peterthoeny [3:22 PM] ah, i need to get up to speed with git haj [3:22 PM] ...and after everything is merged, I can checkout master and commit to SVN :slightly_smiling_face: peterthoeny [3:22 PM] yup, sounds good himazu [3:22 PM] sooner or later, we should migrate to git peterthoeny [3:23 PM] indeed, also to attract younger developers haj [3:23 PM] A lot of Perl modules have moved from SVN to git, to GitHub in particular ...and they retained all the history back for 20 years, like in libwww-perl peterthoeny [3:24 PM] yes, github is the logical progression for the twiki code base is it easy to import svn with all history to github? haj [3:25 PM] I don't know about that, but obviously it is possible I can ask one of the maintainers I've signed up for this year's CPAN Pull Request Challenge, that's all happening on GitHub himazu [3:26 PM] we need to come up with our development/release practices based on git peterthoeny [3:26 PM] sounds good himazu [3:27 PM] that may take more time and effort than to move/copy files from svn to git peterthoeny [3:28 PM] yes, different model, so we need to define the workflow to get new features pulled in our current model is pretty liberal, with trust towards developers that model should be in mind when redefining for the git model haj [3:30 PM] I'd also recommend to split the codebase between a small core (even smaller than the distributed archive) and the plugins Though it makes testing the complete system from the source tree more complicated But I don't like the pseudo-install approach anyway... this leaves to much garbage in many places peterthoeny [3:33 PM] we can do that, but i think one thing at a time, e.g. look at git migration and modularization as two separate projects haj [3:34 PM] Then modularization should come first The toolchain develop/test/build is deeply integrated in the current monolithic structure peterthoeny [3:35 PM] is that “just” a packaging question, or a core code refactor? haj [3:36 PM] I think it is independent of core code refactoring peterthoeny [3:36 PM] ok, because core code refactor will be a lot more work haj [3:37 PM] I wouldn't split the core yet peterthoeny [3:37 PM] i think let’s keep flexible if one or the other first, e.g. if we find a developer who is eager to do the git migration we can support that first haj [3:38 PM] It is even possible to develop an individual plugin with git ...even within the current directory layout That's what I am doing whenever I touch a plugin peterthoeny [3:38 PM] how would you replace the current pseudo install? haj [3:39 PM] Using a flexible LocalLib.cfg to collect all directories needed for a test run We have the mechanisms in place, only we don't use them during development Handling plugin files in data&pub is trickier than the code peterthoeny [3:42 PM] i can’t picture yet how we can do an svn diff equivalent for a single plugin if the code, data and pub are mixed into the core tree haj [3:43 PM] I'd not mix them into the core tree peterthoeny [3:43 PM] what falls into place of sym links? haj [3:44 PM] For code: Adding the plugin libs to @INC peterthoeny [3:44 PM] yes, that is easy working directory is easy too, no need to version control question is data and pub haj [3:45 PM] For templates it _can_ be done with configure {TemplatePath} - but this might be difficult to manage Maybe pub and data still need to be symlinked... but then I'd rather go for a build&test refactoring peterthoeny [3:49 PM] it needs some more thoughts haj [3:49 PM] Yes, indeed himazu [3:50 PM] how about writing up an overall design? haj [3:50 PM] I'm rather happy with my SVN test setup which got me rid of all the permissions problems with Apache and myself himazu [3:51 PM] I think it’s better to be done by a single person, at least with the first draft haj [3:51 PM] @himazu: That would be necessary... share and discuss plans peterthoeny [3:51 PM] ah, in dev i use a setup where everything runs as me not secure enough for production use, but ok and simple for dev time check: +52min let’s move on anything else on bugs? (this topic was misc) haj [3:53 PM] Not from me peterthoeny [3:53 PM] ---++ 4. TWiki Release Discussion no update/progress on my side :confused: this sat i should have time to look at least at the security items what’s on your side? himazu [3:55 PM] nothing from me haj [3:55 PM] We seem to be good in the ReleaseBlockers list - with exception of some plugins Two of them are four years old, so apparently haven't blocked the last release peterthoeny [3:56 PM] yes, they can survive this release ---++ 5. Miscellaneous we talked about gihub and packaging anything to add, anything else? himazu [3:57 PM] not from me peterthoeny [3:58 PM] nothing from me either haj [3:58 PM] I should write a Blog entry how to develop a Plugin in parallel with Git and SVN peterthoeny [3:58 PM] that sounds nice! could nudge us to try haj [3:59 PM] A major advantage of Git is the two-step publication with "commit" (for me only) and "push" (for everyone else) peterthoeny [4:00 PM] yup haj [4:00 PM] I can hack and commit as I want without ever running a risk to lose something, and only push "running stuff" peterthoeny [4:00 PM] ok, shall we close the meeting? himazu [4:01 PM] yep haj [4:01 PM] Fine with me! peterthoeny [4:01 PM] i’ll post the minutes and logs as usual himazu [4:01 PM] ttyl peterthoeny [4:01 PM] thank you @haj & @himazu! haj [4:01 PM] TTYL peterthoeny [4:01 PM] ttyl