Subject: KampalaMeetingLog-2017-02-02.txt
Date: February 2, 2017 3:51:20 PM PST

[3:00pm] HideyoImazu: Hi Peter
[3:01pm] PeterThoeny: good morning HideyoImazu-san!
[3:01pm] PeterThoeny: ogenki desuka?
[3:01pm] HideyoImazu: did you celebrate Chinese New Year at home?
[3:02pm] PeterThoeny: small circle at friends place
[3:02pm] PeterThoeny: the women were playing mahjong
[3:02pm] HideyoImazu: you don't play?
[3:02pm] PeterThoeny: no
[3:02pm] PeterThoeny: i tried many years back
[3:03pm] PeterThoeny: not too interested in card and dice games
[3:03pm] HideyoImazu: I've never played with Chinese people. So I'm a bit curious how they play it.
[3:03pm] PeterThoeny: very noisy 
[3:03pm] HideyoImazu: Though I play only a bit
[3:04pm] HideyoImazu: maybe mahjong in Japan is like dumpling (gyoza) in Japan
[3:04pm] PeterThoeny: trying to keep up with our clown-in-chief
[3:04pm] HideyoImazu: both Chinese origin but they are localized to a large extent
[3:05pm] HideyoImazu: ramen noodle is similar
[3:06pm]  HaraldJoerg joined the chat room.
[3:06pm] PeterThoeny: hi HaraldJoerg!
[3:06pm] HideyoImazu: Hi Harald!
[3:06pm] HaraldJoerg: Ah...  Good evening!
[3:06pm] PeterThoeny: good evening
[3:07pm] PeterThoeny: we were just talking about ramen and mahjong
[3:07pm] HaraldJoerg: Trying a new IRC client...
[3:07pm] HaraldJoerg: Mahjongg... my grandparents played that with us
[3:07pm] PeterThoeny: so far so good, you stay connected
[3:08pm] HideyoImazu: how popular/common mahjong in Germany?
[3:08pm] HideyoImazu: is it common in your grandparents generatin?
[3:08pm] HaraldJoerg: Not at all popular (I mean the game with the small wooden blocks, not the computer game)
[3:09pm] PeterThoeny: shall we start?
[3:09pm] HaraldJoerg: I have never seen it in any other household so far
[3:09pm] HaraldJoerg: Yes, of course
[3:09pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/KampalaReleaseMeeting2017x02x02
[3:09pm] PeterThoeny: 1. Feature Requests for Kampala Release
[3:09pm] PeterThoeny: 2. Extensions
[3:09pm] PeterThoeny: 3. Review Urgent and Not So Urgent Bugs
[3:09pm] PeterThoeny: 4. TWiki Release Discussion
[3:09pm] PeterThoeny: 5. Miscellaneous
[3:10pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 1. Feature Requests for Kampala Release
[3:10pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/WebChanges
[3:10pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiUsersCanRenameWeb - by HideyoImaz-san
[3:11pm] PeterThoeny: we talked about this last time
[3:11pm] HideyoImazu: it's done
[3:11pm] PeterThoeny: cool
[3:11pm] PeterThoeny: indeed, marked as such
[3:11pm] HideyoImazu: it's working on my QA server
[3:12pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/WebStatisticsToHaveNTopicsNAttachments - by HideyoImazu-san
[3:12pm] PeterThoeny: accepted proposal
[3:12pm] PeterThoeny: any update?
[3:12pm] HideyoImazu: no
[3:13pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/AllowOrDenyTopicInAdditionToWebLevel - by HideyoImazu-san
[3:13pm] PeterThoeny: this is merged to core
[3:13pm] PeterThoeny: thanks HideyoImazu-san!
[3:13pm] HideyoImazu: np
[3:13pm] PeterThoeny: nothing else on core features
[3:13pm] PeterThoeny: move on?
[3:14pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 2. Extensions
[3:14pm] HideyoImazu: sure
[3:14pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/WebChanges
[3:14pm] PeterThoeny: no extension updates, but two dev posts
[3:15pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/WorkflowPluginDev
[3:15pm] PeterThoeny: i have no idea about this plugin and detlef's question
[3:16pm] HideyoImazu: I looked into the plugin in the past.
[3:16pm] HideyoImazu: but it didn't and doesn't fit to my users requirements
[3:17pm] PeterThoeny: i never had a use for this plugin
[3:17pm] HideyoImazu: Yaojun may be able to answer. So let me ask him to look into the question.
[3:18pm] PeterThoeny: plain twiki forms features were always was sufficient for me to build apps
[3:18pm] PeterThoeny: thanks
[3:18pm] PeterThoeny: there is another comment on HolidaylistPluginDev, even more esoteric plaugin
[3:18pm] PeterThoeny: "plugin"
[3:19pm] PeterThoeny: that is all on extensions
[3:19pm] HideyoImazu: the plugin is to have some management structure for topic update
[3:19pm] PeterThoeny: anything else?
[3:20pm] PeterThoeny: for automatic topic updates i used http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/IfThenActionPlugin a number of times
[3:21pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 3. Review Urgent and Not So Urgent Bugs
[3:21pm] PeterThoeny: http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/WebChanges
[3:22pm] PeterThoeny: AaronLWalker checked in 5 new plugins
[3:22pm] PeterThoeny: i have not yet looked into them
[3:23pm] PeterThoeny: FlotPlugin implies charting with flot library
[3:23pm] PeterThoeny: http://www.flotcharts.org/flot/examples/
[3:23pm] PeterThoeny: that is a pretty extensible chart library
[3:23pm] PeterThoeny: based on jquery
[3:24pm] PeterThoeny: so, all drawing is done browser side
[3:24pm] PeterThoeny: i recently created a dashboard with graphics from scratch using javascript canvas feature
[3:24pm] PeterThoeny: pretty easy, pretty useful
[3:26pm] PeterThoeny: http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/Item7767
[3:26pm] PeterThoeny:  Item7767: TWiki doesn't work with Red Hat - even with CgiContrib in place
[3:27pm] PeterThoeny: good point harald, on shipping CGI::Carp with twiki core
[3:27pm] PeterThoeny: do you know if this is perl only?
[3:27pm] HaraldJoerg: Yes, that's Perl only, and part of the CGI package
[3:28pm] PeterThoeny: ah, so no braimner to ship with twiki
[3:28pm] PeterThoeny: "brainer"
[3:28pm] HaraldJoerg: Would that actually help?
[3:28pm] HaraldJoerg: I don't think so because it is called before TWiki's library paths are set up
[3:29pm] HaraldJoerg: That's why the contrib fails today
[3:30pm] PeterThoeny: hmm, so move carp out of begin?
[3:31pm] HaraldJoerg: Either that, or declare perl-core a prerequisite on Red Hat.  I guess it comes with a "good" version if CGI and CGI::Carp
[3:32pm] PeterThoeny: what do you recommend?
[3:32pm] HaraldJoerg: I have no Red Hat right now... but usually I recommend to stick with what the distribution provides
[3:33pm] HaraldJoerg: That way, the distribution takes care for  "matching" versions
[3:34pm] PeterThoeny: true
[3:34pm] PeterThoeny: wondering what the percentage of non-root users is on redhat / centos
[3:34pm] HaraldJoerg: Eliminating the calls to CGI::Carp will be required when distrubutions start shipping CGI V4.03 or newer
[3:35pm] PeterThoeny: argh, more cgi incompatibilities to come
[3:35pm] HaraldJoerg: If you are non root... then your provider should understand that CGI is a prerequisite for running web apps
[3:36pm] PeterThoeny: carp's main pupose is to see useful message in browser on fatal error, right?
[3:37pm] HaraldJoerg: CGI::Carp adds some data to the web server's error log
[3:37pm] PeterThoeny: ah
[3:38pm] HaraldJoerg: Not so much of a gain in my opinion
[3:39pm] PeterThoeny: what about calling setlib first, then cgi::carp?
[3:39pm] HaraldJoerg: fatalsToBrowser is another feature of CGI::Carp which, as you wrote, prints a copy of the error message to the browser
[3:39pm] PeterThoeny: still both in begin block
[3:40pm] PeterThoeny: that way we can ship cgi::carp
[3:40pm] HaraldJoerg: That way it works... but fails to report problems in setlib.cfg
[3:40pm] PeterThoeny: drawback: non-descriptive 'server error' if error in setlib.cfg
[3:41pm] PeterThoeny: i suspect a very small percentage of redhat / centos admins do not have root access
[3:42pm] PeterThoeny: so it would be ok to add perl-core as a prerequisit
[3:42pm] PeterThoeny: what do you think?
[3:42pm] HaraldJoerg: Yes, indeed. That was an issue before virtualisation came up, so many clients shared one Apache instance
[3:42pm] PeterThoeny: yup
[3:43pm] PeterThoeny: ok, so let's rephrase this item as a doc update on system requirtements and installation instructions
[3:43pm] PeterThoeny: i'll follow up on that
[3:43pm] PeterThoeny: that is all ob bugs
[3:43pm] PeterThoeny: anything?
[3:44pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 4. TWiki Release Discussion
[3:45pm] PeterThoeny: i have no update on twiki apps packager
[3:45pm] PeterThoeny: anybody has an update?
[3:45pm] HideyoImazu: I'm working on ResponsiveSkin. still at an early stage
[3:45pm] HideyoImazu: nothing to show
[3:45pm] PeterThoeny: ok
[3:45pm] HideyoImazu: it will be based on Bootstrap
[3:46pm] HideyoImazu: initially very vanilla way
[3:46pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 5. Miscellaneous
[3:46pm] PeterThoeny: anything?
[3:46pm] HaraldJoerg: Not from me
[3:47pm] HideyoImazu: me either
[3:47pm] PeterThoeny: time check: +47 min
[3:47pm] PeterThoeny: lets close early
[3:47pm] PeterThoeny: thank you HideyoImazu-san and HaraldJoerg!
[3:47pm] HideyoImazu: ttyl
[3:47pm] PeterThoeny: in two weeks i will be in switzerland
[3:47pm] PeterThoeny: not sure yet if i can join
[3:48pm] PeterThoeny: i send out invite and possibly join
[3:48pm] HaraldJoerg: Skiing?
[3:48pm] PeterThoeny: no
[3:48pm] PeterThoeny: family matter
[3:48pm] PeterThoeny: i'll post the minutes and logs
[3:49pm] PeterThoeny: ttyl!
[3:49pm] HaraldJoerg: TTYL!
[3:49pm]  HaraldJoerg left the chat room.