Subject: KampalaMeetingLog2016x11x17.txt
Date: November 17, 2016 at 4:09:20 PM PST

[2:56pm]  HideyoImazu joined the chat room.
[3:00pm] PeterThoeny: hi HideyoImazu-san!
[3:00pm] PeterThoeny: lucky you, one hour later 
[3:00pm] HideyoImazu: hi Peter
[3:00pm] HideyoImazu: it's a mixed bag.
[3:01pm] HideyoImazu: I need to stay until 9am
[3:01pm] HideyoImazu: at home
[3:01pm] PeterThoeny: ah
[3:01pm] PeterThoeny: can't do on the way or at wok?
[3:01pm] PeterThoeny: "work"
[3:01pm] HideyoImazu: my wife is not so happy about me going to the office late
[3:02pm] HideyoImazu: it takes about an hour to get to the office
[3:02pm] PeterThoeny: i know another person with th same situation 
[3:02pm]  HaraldJoerg joined the chat room.
[3:02pm] HaraldJoerg: Guten Abend!
[3:02pm] PeterThoeny: pete jones of cern said he'd join too today
[3:02pm] HideyoImazu: after a late evening conf call, leaving home at 7am is a bit tough
[3:02pm] PeterThoeny: hallo HaraldJoerg!
[3:03pm] PeterThoeny: what's new in germany besides obama?
[3:05pm] PeterThoeny: HideyoImazu-san: we'll be in japan dec 5-18
[3:05pm] HaraldJoerg: I'm out of sync with the rest of Germany... on a business trip, chatting from the hotel
[3:06pm] HideyoImazu: Peter, that's cool. we can catch up.
[3:06pm] PeterThoeny: first a few days in tokyo, then nagoya, nagano-ken, possibly kyoto
[3:06pm] PeterThoeny: yes, we should meet!
[3:06pm] HideyoImazu: I'll be in Tokyo during that period.
[3:07pm] PeterThoeny: eying a dinner on fri dec 9 in tokyo
[3:07pm] HideyoImazu: any preference?
[3:07pm] PeterThoeny: at either a restaurant or a party at a friend's home
[3:08pm] PeterThoeny: i'll discuss with my friend (host family from long time ago) in edo-ku
[3:08pm] HideyoImazu: edogawa-ku ?
[3:08pm] PeterThoeny: edogawa-ku, yes
[3:09pm] HideyoImazu: no edo-ku in tokyo
[3:10pm] PeterThoeny: pete jones did not join yet
[3:10pm] PeterThoeny: time chck: +10 min
[3:10pm] PeterThoeny: shall we start?
[3:10pm] HideyoImazu: sure
[3:10pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/KampalaReleaseMeeting2016x11x17
[3:10pm] PeterThoeny: 1. Feature Requests for Kampala Release
[3:10pm] PeterThoeny: 2. Extensions
[3:10pm] PeterThoeny: 3. Review Urgent and Not So Urgent Bugs
[3:10pm] PeterThoeny: 4. Miscellaneous
[3:10pm] PeterThoeny: btw, i am on a new mobile carrier, hopefully more stable now
[3:11pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 1. Feature Requests for Kampala Release
[3:11pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/WebChanges
[3:11pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/SaveFileToBeAtomic
[3:12pm] PeterThoeny: by HideyoImazu-san
[3:12pm] HideyoImazu: it's a small change
[3:12pm] PeterThoeny: proposed 7 days ago
[3:12pm] PeterThoeny: technically accepted by 7 day feedback
[3:12pm] PeterThoeny: looks good
[3:12pm] HideyoImazu: any concern or question?
[3:12pm] PeterThoeny: no, looks good
[3:13pm] PeterThoeny: related, do we need to worry about simultaneous update?
[3:13pm] PeterThoeny: in any case, rename temp file is better than writing to a file
[3:14pm] HideyoImazu: writing atomicity is achieved anyway
[3:14pm] PeterThoeny: yes
[3:14pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/RedirecttoVariables
[3:14pm] PeterThoeny: by mahiro-san
[3:14pm] HideyoImazu: even if multiple processes try to write to a same file
[3:15pm] PeterThoeny: yes
[3:15pm] PeterThoeny: committed two days ago
[3:15pm] PeterThoeny: proposal looks good to me
[3:16pm] PeterThoeny: any feedback on this/
[3:16pm] PeterThoeny: ?
[3:16pm] HaraldJoerg: $topic and $web would be more in line with other TWiki substitution mechanisms
[3:17pm] PeterThoeny: true
[3:17pm] HaraldJoerg: ....instead of $topicName ad $webName as in the proposal
[3:17pm] PeterThoeny: any unexpected side-effects if using $topic $web?
[3:17pm] HideyoImazu: agreed
[3:18pm] PeterThoeny: for example, if you have redirectto in a SEARCH you need to escape $topic and $web
[3:19pm] PeterThoeny: which i think is ok, it's already documented
[3:19pm] PeterThoeny: so i am also for the more consistent syntax
[3:20pm] PeterThoeny: vote on this? -1 against, 0 abstain, +1 accept with $topicName, +2 accept with $topic
[3:20pm] HaraldJoerg: +2
[3:20pm] PeterThoeny: +2
[3:20pm] HideyoImazu: +2
[3:21pm] PeterThoeny: accepted by release meeting
[3:22pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/AntiSpamEmailGuestPadding - by pete jones
[3:22pm] PeterThoeny: small enhancement to be more granular with spam padding
[3:22pm] PeterThoeny: useful for the public cern twiki
[3:22pm] PeterThoeny: i am for it
[3:23pm] HaraldJoerg: Useful for public webs, it's ok
[3:23pm] PeterThoeny: just realize pete did not state a commit date and commit developer
[3:23pm] PeterThoeny: via e-mail it lloked like he is going to implement this
[3:24pm] PeterThoeny: i'll put him down as committed dev as of today
[3:25pm] PeterThoeny: shall we vote?
[3:25pm] HaraldJoerg: yes
[3:25pm] PeterThoeny: -1, 0, or +1
[3:25pm] HaraldJoerg: +1
[3:25pm] PeterThoeny: +1
[3:25pm] HideyoImazu: +1
[3:27pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/WebStatisticsToHaveNTopicsNAttachments by HideyoImazu-san
[3:27pm] PeterThoeny: (ah, previous one is accepted by release meeting
[3:28pm] PeterThoeny: statistics enhancements look good
[3:28pm] PeterThoeny: any upgrade needed for existing statistics topics?
[3:28pm] HideyoImazu: no
[3:29pm] PeterThoeny: good
[3:29pm] HideyoImazu: currently there is a row showing most viewed topics
[3:29pm] HideyoImazu: that row will have the number of topics at the top
[3:30pm] HideyoImazu: to row having topic saves will have the number of topics at the top
[3:30pm] PeterThoeny: got it
[3:30pm] HideyoImazu: the row having ...
[3:31pm] HideyoImazu: oops
[3:31pm] HideyoImazu: the row having file uploads will have the number of attachments at the top
[3:32pm] HideyoImazu: i mean column
[3:32pm] HideyoImazu: not row
[3:32pm] HideyoImazu: in any case, the number of columns remains the same
[3:32pm] HideyoImazu: column titles too
[3:33pm] PeterThoeny: attachment uploads example:7
[3:33pm] PeterThoeny: (5 unique users)
[3:34pm] PeterThoeny: (20 attachments in total)
[3:34pm] PeterThoeny: ight?
[3:34pm] PeterThoeny: right?
[3:34pm] HideyoImazu: that's the idea
[3:35pm] PeterThoeny: possibly shorten to (20 attachments total)
[3:35pm] PeterThoeny: technically accepted by 7 days feedback rule
[3:36pm] PeterThoeny: that is all on proposals
[3:36pm] PeterThoeny: anything else?
[3:36pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 2. Extensions
[3:36pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/WebChanges
[3:37pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/EditTablePlugin - updatd by HideyoImazu-san
[3:37pm] PeterThoeny: avoid viewauth if user is already authenticated
[3:37pm] HideyoImazu: small improvement and fix
[3:37pm] PeterThoeny: that is all on extensions
[3:38pm] PeterThoeny: anything else?
[3:38pm] HideyoImazu: not from me
[3:38pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 3. Review Urgent and Not So Urgent Bugs
[3:38pm] PeterThoeny: http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/WebChanges
[3:39pm] PeterThoeny: no changes sinc last meeting except for already covered edit table plugin
[3:39pm] PeterThoeny: anything else?
[3:39pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 4. Miscellaneous
[3:39pm] PeterThoeny: anything?
[3:40pm] HaraldJoerg: Just a question: Is it possible to customize a cover (like e.g. the print cover) from a TWiki topic?
[3:41pm] HaraldJoerg: I failed miserably, but doing it in a .tmpl file worked pretty easy
[3:42pm] PeterThoeny: you can add a Set COVER = … to a twiki topic
[3:43pm] HaraldJoerg: I tried that, but it had no effect with various ways to name the topic and the cover
[3:43pm] HideyoImazu: what if you set WEB.TOPIC ?
[3:44pm] HaraldJoerg: I could change/customize the skin with a topic, but not a cover.  Do the topics for a cover have a 
different name convention?
[3:44pm] PeterThoeny: what do you mean by "to name the topic"?
[3:45pm] HaraldJoerg: There's a convention that the topic should be called SkinSkinScriptTemplate
[3:45pm] HideyoImazu: how about setting VIEW_TEMPLATE
[3:46pm] PeterThoeny: oh, something seems to be broken?
[3:46pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/KampalaReleaseMeeting2016x11x17?COVER=print
[3:46pm] PeterThoeny: does not work
[3:47pm] PeterThoeny: ah, lower case
[3:47pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/KampalaReleaseMeeting2016x11x17?cover=print
[3:48pm] PeterThoeny: the cover= adds a skin template to the existing skins
[3:48pm] HaraldJoerg: That's all fine, but I failed to create my "special" print cover in a TWiki topic, as suggested in 
http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/TWik./TWikiTemplates
[3:49pm] PeterThoeny: hmm, not sure, should work
[3:49pm] HaraldJoerg: I had to create a .tmpl file, which was quite easy, but needs root permissions and therefore is frowned upon
[3:49pm] PeterThoeny: i recommend to clone the existing print template
[3:49pm] HideyoImazu: what if cover=WEB.TOPIC ?
[3:49pm] PeterThoeny: oic, you'd like to avoid adding to twiki/templates
[3:50pm] HaraldJoerg: I haven't tried to fully qualify the cover as Hideyo-san suggested, can do that next week
[3:50pm] HaraldJoerg: And yes, having the skin easily modifyable as a topic was the main target
[3:51pm] PeterThoeny: ah, what i did in the past for a client: create a shim template that includes a topic containing the 
template stuff
[3:51pm] PeterThoeny: that way you can edit the skin from within a twiki topic
[3:52pm] PeterThoeny: HideyoImazu-san
[3:53pm] HaraldJoerg: Yes, I managed to edit skins.  But if I simply set a new skin, then I lose the default covers building 
the top menu
[3:53pm] HideyoImazu: On a web in my environment, I have a custom page view template with %TMPL:INCLUDE{"view"}% at the top
[3:54pm] HaraldJoerg: Is that a TWiki topic or a file in /templates?
[3:54pm] HideyoImazu: followed by several %TMPL:DEF{"..."}%...%TMPL:END%
[3:54pm] HideyoImazu: that's a TWIki topic
[3:55pm] HideyoImazu: such as WebViewEntryTmpl
[3:56pm] HideyoImazu: Some topics have "* Set VIEW_TEMPLATE = WEB.WebViewEntryTmpl"
[3:56pm] PeterThoeny: here is another example: if you want to add a custom header or footer to an existing skin just for a 
set of topics do this:
[3:56pm] HideyoImazu: in some cases setting VIEW_TEMPLATE dynamically on WebPreferences.
[3:57pm] HaraldJoerg: That's about the same stuff I have in my customization cover.  But I don't want to have to add a view 
template (or any SKIN or COVER setting) to a topic.
[3:57pm] HideyoImazu: depending on topic, different VIEW_TEMPLATE value
[3:57pm] PeterThoeny: 1. create a view template topic, such as FooViewTemplate.txt
[3:57pm] PeterThoeny: content:
[3:57pm] PeterThoeny: %TMPL:INCLUDE{"view"}%
[3:57pm] PeterThoeny: %TMPL:DEF{"formtop"}%%INCLUDE{FooHeader}%%TMPL:END%
[3:57pm] PeterThoeny: %TMPL:DEF{"formbottom"}%%TMPL:END%
[3:58pm] PeterThoeny: 2. define the FooHeader topic with whatever you need
[3:58pm] PeterThoeny: 3. in the template topic used for your special topics, set this topic preference setting: 
[3:59pm] PeterThoeny:   * Set VIEW_TEMPLATE = FooView
[3:59pm] HaraldJoerg: That's my workaround of today:  The .tmpl file just includes the "parent" and then %INCLUDEs a topic
[4:00pm] PeterThoeny: HideyoImazu-san: where are the famous snow monkeys in japan? just yamanouchi-machi, or also elsewhere?
[4:00pm] HaraldJoerg: I would prefer to manage without a preference setting, because this has turned out to be difficult to 
grasp for occasional authors
[4:00pm] HideyoImazu: let me check...
[4:01pm] PeterThoeny: you can hide the pref setting in the topic peferences, hence hidden from average user
[4:01pm] PeterThoeny: see more topic actions (as you know)
[4:01pm] HaraldJoerg: PeterThoeny:  That's even worse because they won't even see why some topics work and some don't
[4:02pm] PeterThoeny: for twiki apps with twiki forms attached to topics i usually use this approach
[4:02pm] HaraldJoerg: I have an app where the form is in *another* topic, hence things are a bit more interesting 
[4:03pm] PeterThoeny: that app's topics could be also based on a custom template, which could contain the topic pref setting
[4:03pm] PeterThoeny: time check: +63 min
[4:04pm] PeterThoeny: we should close soon
[4:06pm] HideyoImazu: i need to go now.
[4:06pm] HaraldJoerg: Ok, TTYL!
[4:07pm] HideyoImazu: TTYL
[4:07pm] PeterThoeny: depending on where i am in japan i might or might not join the next release meeting in december
[4:07pm] HideyoImazu: understood
[4:07pm] PeterThoeny: ok, thank you HideyoImazu-san and HaraldJoerg!
[4:07pm] PeterThoeny: i'll post the logs and minutes
[4:07pm] PeterThoeny: ttyl!