Subject: KampalaMeetingLog2016x06x16.txt Date: June 16, 2016 4:02:32 PM PDT [15:09] == peterthoeny___ [46c507e1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.197.7.225] has joined #twiki_release [15:09] i am back [15:09] understood [15:09] can you see this? [15:09] == peterthoeny__ [46c504fd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.197.4.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] [15:10] Welcome back, Peter! You seem to collect underscores [15:10] Oh, he's gone again [15:10] yup [15:10] no am here [15:10] the one with two underscore is gone [15:10] now i have three [15:10] three underscores? [15:10] Difficult to see :) [15:11] Peter, while you were struggling, Harald and I were talking about "einen Korb geben" [15:12] haha [15:12] that happens [15:12] HideyoImazu-san, do you learn german? [15:12] no [15:13] I just came across that german phrase the other day [15:13] the english language also has peculiar terms [15:13] my favorite one: defenestration [15:13] "the act of throwing something or someone out of the window" [15:14] what is new? [15:15] I was playing around with JavaScript [15:15] js is a fun language too [15:15] to streamline a new web creation on our TWiki installation [15:16] the majority of consulting i currently do is using node.js [15:16] oh, cool [15:17] on our TWiki installation, to create a new web, first you need to register the web's metadata on a web form. and then distribute it world-wide (we have three loosely coupled installations) [15:17] all async programming, which takes some time to get the heads around [15:17] and then create the new web. [15:18] which involves with several HTTP POSTs and GETs. [15:18] ah, so you do that with sequential ajax calls? [15:18] that's right [15:18] that is userfriendly [15:18] before, it required several clicks. [15:18] but now it's one click [15:19] user is not bothered with behind the scene stuff [15:19] to have ordinary people create a new web, the operation needs to be as simple as possible [15:20] so far, because of the not-very-simple operation, new web creation has been done by a support team. [15:20] i forgot, isn't web creation limitd to members of the twikiadmingroup? [15:20] but with the one click creation, we're making it self-service [15:21] == peterthoeny__ [46c507e1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.197.7.225] has joined #twiki_release [15:21] i am back [15:22] welcome back two underscore Peter! [15:22] last thing i saw: "but with the one click creation..." [15:22] you didn't miss anything [15:22] i am in the middle of the silicon valley and the mobile connectivity is so crappy [15:23] we are way behind technology here... [15:23] == peterthoeny___ [46c507e1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.197.7.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] [15:23] tomorrow my son and i go to the black rock desert in nevada to a 3 days rocket launch event [15:23] should be fun [15:24] time is running [15:24] let's start [15:24] http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/KampalaReleaseMeeting2016x06x16 [15:24] 1. Feature Requests for Kampala Release 2. Extensions 3. Review Urgent and Not So Urgent Bugs 4. Miscellaneous [15:24] not much happened in last two weeks [15:24] let's quickly review [15:24] ---++ 1. Feature Requests for Kampala Release [15:25] http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/WebChanges [15:25] no features changes since last time [15:25] Recently I stumbled over an idea but would't have enough time to implement it [15:26] only change is the doc of the regex presentation i gave at the silicon valley perl meetup [15:26] 70+ rsvp'ed, less showed up [15:26] please share the idea [15:26] The crosswords is nice and far from easy [15:27] But it only covers "simple" regular expressions [15:27] it's very hard, the crosswords took me many hours to solve [15:27] because many regexes are non-deterministic [15:28] I didn't have a pencil, so I used a ballpen and needed several sheets [15:28] Very few are deterministic to start with [15:28] so you have to cross-check with the two other dimensions, which are also non-deterministic [15:28] I did it too. It took several hours for me too [15:29] did you solve it HaraldJoerg? [15:29] Yep... quite a few of the '*' quantifiers evaluate to zero [15:30] I haven't solved it completely, ran out of time, but still have a half-finished sheet :) [15:30] harald, would you like to discuss your idea? [15:31] A short outline... we are using TWiki as sort-of-document management system for formal documents, which are MS-Office or PDF [15:31] So it would be nice to upload 1-2 documents simultaneously with providing the meta data [15:31] Right now it is create a topic (form based) and enter meta data, then attach [15:32] Often people forget to attach [15:32] with twiki form to keep track of metadata (owner, doc status, approval, ...) ? [15:32] Yep [15:32] And a SEARCH with lots of filters for form fields for retrieval [15:33] Links to attached documents are a bit tricky in the SEARCH because ATTACHURL is misinterpreted [15:33] i recall there is a plugin that adds a file input field; never used it, but that could potentially be helpful for your use case? [15:34] Yes, I haven't had a look at it [15:34] is the goal to provide meta data and file upload in one form? [15:34] yes [15:34] And preferably add the "source" (e.g. Microsoft word) and the "published file" (typically PDF) in one go [15:35] If you make a new revision, you need the source, but readers should only see the PDF [15:35] if the plugin is not suitable you could hand craft the html form, and use some js to do two posts, one for the topic creation with meta data, one for the file upload [15:36] Yes, I think this will be best done with a plugin [15:36] ah, so you need some after-upload action on the server [15:36] look into the IfThenActionPlugin, which is designed for this kind of stuff [15:36] Yes, but the usual reader's interface is the SEARCH form, which doesn't show the source files [15:37] you can drop in your own then-action, for example to generate a pdf from doc [15:37] I don't intend to generate PDF from doc - that's up to the authors [15:37] They have macros which add metadata to the PDF [15:38] Sharepoint can extract the metadata from MS-Word [15:38] But they lack a decent presentation of document and metadata, at least in all implementations I've seen so far [15:38] fyi, you can add pretty complex queries in a search _result_ using format="... $query(...) ..." [15:39] for example you could query certain attachments and link to them in the search result [15:39] Oh yeah, the queries are just fine in TWiki [15:40] well, it would be a 2 step query: the actual search query, and the search result query [15:40] the $query() has the full query search capability [15:40] which is pretty powerful [15:41] I've done this ten years ago with a Plugin (forgot the name) but it still works fine [15:41] shall we move on? [15:41] ---++ 2. Extensions [15:41] Sure [15:41] http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/WebChanges [15:42] no updates here [15:42] i have not done yet the twikisheetplugin enhancements i mentioned last time [15:42] anything on extensions? [15:42] (I just recalled... I did it with DBCacheContrib 10 years ago) [15:43] ah [15:43] ---++ 3. Review Urgent and Not So Urgent Bugs [15:43] http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/WebChanges [15:44] two items: [15:44] http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/Item7744 [15:44] Item7744: Preferences not read from template topics such as WebTopicViewTemplate [15:44] with proposed fix by StefanWalter [15:44] i'll look into this [15:45] http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/Item7745 [15:45] Item7745: Trailing paragraph after html [15:45] That dates back to Item1640 [15:45] reported by StefanWalter [15:46] For some weird reason, I remembered the discussion from 2004 [15:46] yes, i remember too [15:46] i did not agree but committed to the community decision [15:47] Maybe his templates pre-date Dakar and he hasn't noticed the problem until now [15:47] yes [15:47] i don't really want to revisit this [15:47] recommend to take no action [15:48] no issue if skin developer is aware of this behavior [15:48] That's why I suggested to fix his bodyend... it is documented in TWikiSkins [15:48] yes [15:48] anything else on bugs? [15:48] I've set 7445 to waiting for feedback, maybe there's another problem hiding [15:49] ok, sounds good [15:49] ---++ 4. Miscellaneous [15:49] anything? [15:49] othing from me [15:49] "nothing" [15:49] I'll make another attempt to demonstrate TWiki within our company [15:50] cool! let me know if there is anything i can help with [15:50] When we started 11 years ago it was frowned upon because there are better, commercial alternatives like Sharepoint [15:50] But by now they've learned that Sharepoint, Confluence and Jira _all_ need to be heavily customized [15:51] So they're beginning to be able to actually listen [15:51] and twiki customization is much less costly in terms of person resources needed [15:51] i think that is a key argument [15:52] Especially when one of the persons has 12 years of experience :) [15:52] yup [15:52] It was really interesting to see them actually visit the TWiki documentation for the first time [15:53] They were all eager to show me the features of the commercial tools, but there was nothing I couldn't do with TWiki [15:53] depens on company, but with many, top managements is impressed with slick looking dashboards and reports [15:53] so that might be a good place to put in some efforts [15:55] Top management isn't the issue, the users are. It needs to be easy to use. After years of Sharepoint they can now actually appreciate TWiki Forms [15:55] do some roi estimates to implement some type of bigger app in sharepoint, confluence/jira, and twiki [15:55] talk to experts in their field to come up with an estimate on manpower needed [15:56] time check: + 56 min; i have a hard stop in 4 min [15:57] HideyoImazu-san, do you have any recommendation fo HaraldJoerg? [15:57] I've nothing to add :) [15:58] I have some, but it doesn't fit to a few lines [15:58] let me send you my thoughts on it [15:58] That would be most welcome [15:58] shall we close the meeting? [15:58] Fine with me [15:59] ok, i'll post the minutes and logs as usual [15:59] thank you HaraldJoerg & HideyoImazu-san! [15:59] ttyl [15:59] ttyl