Subject: KampalaMeetingLog2016x02x18.txt
Date: February 18, 2016 3:59:26 PM PST

[2:59pm] HaraldJoerg joined the chat room.
[2:59pm] HaraldJoerg: Good evening!
[2:59pm] HideyoImazu: Hi Harald
[2:59pm] HideyoImazu: Hi Peter
[3:00pm] PeterThoeny: good evening HaraldJoerg, おはようございます HideyoImazu-san!
[3:00pm] PeterThoeny: what's new?
[3:01pm] HideyoImazu: gravitational wave detection is just amazing
[3:01pm] PeterThoeny: yes, indeed
[3:01pm] PeterThoeny: predicted by einstein
[3:02pm] PeterThoeny: someone posted a photo on fb of einstein's handriting in german about that
[3:03pm] HideyoImazu: I wonder if his personality is the same in German and in English
[3:03pm] PeterThoeny: he definitely was a womanizer
[3:03pm] HideyoImazu: what's womanizer?
[3:04pm] PeterThoeny: なんぱが好きの男の人
[3:04pm] HideyoImazu: ok
[3:04pm] PeterThoeny: at least in his later years while in the usa
[3:05pm] HideyoImazu: I didn't expect the word なんぱ from you, Peter
[3:05pm] PeterThoeny: haha
[3:05pm] PeterThoeny: i don't brag about my past
[3:05pm] HideyoImazu: Harald, it's a very colloquial word
[3:06pm] HaraldJoerg: It's all greek ti me 
[3:06pm] PeterThoeny: shall we start?
[3:06pm] HideyoImazu: It's not so surprising for Einstein to have a huge ego
[3:06pm] HideyoImazu: sure, let's start
[3:06pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/KampalaReleaseMeeting2016x02x18
[3:07pm] PeterThoeny: 1. Feature Requests for Kampala Release
[3:07pm] PeterThoeny: 2. Extensions
[3:07pm] PeterThoeny: 3. Review Urgent and Not So Urgent Bugs
[3:07pm] PeterThoeny: 4. Miscellaneous
[3:07pm] PeterThoeny: agenda as usual
[3:07pm] PeterThoeny: ---+ 1. Feature Requests for Kampala Release
[3:07pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/WebChanges
[3:07pm] PeterThoeny: from newest first:
[3:07pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/EnhancedWebVariable
[3:08pm] PeterThoeny: proposed by vicki brown
[3:08pm] PeterThoeny: good discussion
[3:08pm] HideyoImazu: agreed
[3:08pm] PeterThoeny: i put myself as committed developer
[3:08pm] PeterThoeny: small enhancement
[3:08pm] PeterThoeny: shall we vote?
[3:08pm] HideyoImazu: +1
[3:08pm] HaraldJoerg: +1 from me
[3:08pm] PeterThoeny: +1
[3:08pm] PeterThoeny: accepted by release meeting
[3:09pm] PeterThoeny: twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/DynamicVarVIEWTEMPLATE
[3:09pm] PeterThoeny: by HideyoImazu-san
[3:09pm] PeterThoeny: looks good
[3:09pm] PeterThoeny: vote?
[3:09pm] HideyoImazu: +1
[3:09pm] PeterThoeny: +1
[3:09pm] HaraldJoerg: +1
[3:09pm] PeterThoeny: also accepted by relesase meeting
[3:09pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/ReferTopicAndAttachmentNameInDoubleBracket
[3:10pm] PeterThoeny: by HideyoImazu-san
[3:10pm] PeterThoeny: small sensible enhancement
[3:10pm] PeterThoeny: vote?
[3:10pm] HideyoImazu: +1
[3:10pm] HaraldJoerg: +1
[3:10pm] PeterThoeny: +1
[3:10pm] PeterThoeny: also accepted
[3:10pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/AutoSectionsPluginIncludedInReleases
[3:10pm] PeterThoeny: by HideyoImazu-san team
[3:10pm] PeterThoeny: this is an older item
[3:11pm] PeterThoeny: plugin is more or less ready
[3:11pm] HideyoImazu: is there missing feature or shortcoming?
[3:12pm] PeterThoeny: http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/Item7724: Auto-sections code cuts heading at 
double-exclamation point
[3:12pm] PeterThoeny: this is a showstopper i think
[3:12pm] PeterThoeny: other than that i think it looks good
[3:12pm] PeterThoeny: lok also at http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/AutoSectionsPlugin
[3:12pm] PeterThoeny: some might be closed already
[3:13pm] PeterThoeny: e.g. ready to close
[3:13pm] HideyoImazu: is Item7724 still there?
[3:13pm] HideyoImazu: I cannot reproduce in my environment
[3:14pm] PeterThoeny: yes, see test case at http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/AutoSectionsPluginIncludedInReleases#Discussion
[3:14pm] PeterThoeny: my note dated 2016-02-16
[3:14pm] HideyoImazu: ok
[3:14pm] HideyoImazu: let me take a look at all of those items
[3:15pm] PeterThoeny: thanks
[3:15pm] PeterThoeny: i think that's it for features
[3:15pm] HideyoImazu: i've been using AutoSectionsPlugin for a couple of years and I cannot live without it
[3:15pm] PeterThoeny: anything else?
[3:15pm] HideyoImazu: no
[3:15pm] PeterThoeny: actually i have a minor detail, "no brainer"
[3:16pm] PeterThoeny: we have TWOCOLUMNS … ENDCOLUMNS (and three, four too)
[3:16pm] PeterThoeny: for responsive multi-column layout
[3:16pm] PeterThoeny: works nicely in modern browsers, and falls back to single column in old browsers
[3:17pm] PeterThoeny: we had a related support q:
[3:17pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Support/SID-02154
[3:17pm] PeterThoeny: i intend to add column-span to h2 heading
[3:18pm] PeterThoeny: this means that an h2 will break the column layout and start a new column set
[3:18pm] PeterThoeny: i think h3 and lower should not break columns
[3:18pm] PeterThoeny: and h1 is used at top of doc once
[3:18pm] PeterThoeny: so h2 only
[3:18pm] PeterThoeny: does that make sense?
[3:19pm] HaraldJoerg: yes
[3:19pm] HideyoImazu: mmm
[3:19pm] PeterThoeny: so as a 'no-brainer" i will handle this as a item in dev only
[3:19pm] PeterThoeny: if you are ok with the spec
[3:20pm] HideyoImazu: h2 is used for sections, h3 for subsections in a topic, I tend to think
[3:20pm] PeterThoeny: yes indeed
[3:20pm] HideyoImazu: sections and column layout are related but different concept
[3:21pm] PeterThoeny: example:
[3:21pm] PeterThoeny: h1 heading
[3:21pm] PeterThoeny: | h2 heading        |
[3:21pm] PeterThoeny: | c1 text | c1 text |
[3:21pm] PeterThoeny: | h2 heading        |
[3:21pm] PeterThoeny: | c2 text | c2 text |
[3:22pm] PeterThoeny: and an h3 will flow within a column
[3:22pm] PeterThoeny: since it is a subsection
[3:22pm] PeterThoeny: any concern?
[3:23pm] HideyoImazu: I have topics with the following structure
[3:23pm] HideyoImazu: h1 heading
[3:23pm] HideyoImazu: | h2 heading    | h2 heading |
[3:23pm] HideyoImazu: | c1 text          | c2 text    |
[3:24pm] HideyoImazu: | h2 heading    | c2 text    |
[3:24pm] HideyoImazu: | c1 text    | c2 text    |
[3:24pm] HideyoImazu: | c1 text      | h2 heading  |
[3:24pm] PeterThoeny: this is using TWOCOLUMS variable or table?
[3:25pm] HideyoImazu: using <div class="column01">...</div><div class="column02">...</div>
[3:25pm] HideyoImazu: with our custom skin
[3:26pm] PeterThoeny: class uses float or column-count?
[3:26pm] PeterThoeny: TWOLCOUMNS uses column-count
[3:26pm] HideyoImazu: let me check
[3:27pm] PeterThoeny: column-count is responsive friendly
[3:27pm] PeterThoeny: see https://css-tricks.com/guide-responsive-friendly-css-columns/
[3:27pm] HideyoImazu: float
[3:27pm] PeterThoeny: ok, different case then
[3:27pm] PeterThoeny: your example still works as before then
[3:28pm] HideyoImazu: pattern skin enhanced that way doesn't affect me.
[3:28pm] PeterThoeny: correct
[3:28pm] HideyoImazu: still, I'd like things to be right
[3:29pm] PeterThoeny: i try to understand the concern
[3:29pm] PeterThoeny: can you explain?
[3:29pm] HideyoImazu: what will happen with the "no-brainer" enhancement?
[3:30pm] PeterThoeny: no change if you do not use TWOLCOLUMNS
[3:30pm] PeterThoeny: if you have a large body of text between TWOLCOLUMNS and ENDCOLUMNS,
[3:31pm] PeterThoeny: and in that large body an h2, it will split the flow of columns at the h2
[3:31pm] PeterThoeny: meaning the text before h2 is split in two columns above, followed by an h2 that goes across both 
columns, followed by the test split in two columns
[3:31pm] PeterThoeny: if window width is small, it reverts back to a single comumn
[3:32pm] HideyoImazu: what's the current behavior?
[3:32pm] PeterThoeny: h2 does not split the flow of columns
[3:33pm] PeterThoeny: e.g. the h2 sits eitehr on the left ar right column, flowing with the text
[3:33pm] PeterThoeny: fix s/ar/or/
[3:33pm] HideyoImazu: how column border is determined?
[3:34pm] PeterThoeny: currently hardcoded in twiki css
[3:34pm] PeterThoeny: divider between columns is same gray like an hr
[3:34pm] HideyoImazu: let's say we have:
[3:34pm] PeterThoeny: no divider at far left and right
[3:34pm] HideyoImazu: %TWOCOLUMNS%
[3:35pm] HideyoImazu: h2 heading
[3:35pm] HideyoImazu: text
[3:35pm] HideyoImazu: text
[3:35pm] HideyoImazu: h2 heading
[3:35pm] HideyoImazu: text
[3:35pm] HideyoImazu: text
[3:35pm] HideyoImazu: text
[3:35pm] HideyoImazu: %ENDCOLUMNS%
[3:35pm] PeterThoeny: see example at http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/TWiki/VarTWOCOLUMNS
[3:35pm] HideyoImazu: currently, how it's split into two columns?
[3:36pm] PeterThoeny: text is evenly split among the two columns, e.g. h2 sits wherever it is in the flow
[3:36pm] HideyoImazu: ok
[3:36pm] PeterThoeny: new spec: very h2 stops the flow and uses both columns
[3:36pm] PeterThoeny: "every h2"
[3:36pm] HideyoImazu: understood
[3:37pm] PeterThoeny: mind you that ff currently does not support the "stop column flow"
[3:37pm] PeterThoeny: so it falls back to treating all text as "flowable"
[3:37pm] HideyoImazu: it's something different from two column layout I've been doing
[3:38pm] HideyoImazu: so, not much concern from me
[3:38pm] PeterThoeny: i think for sectional edit, it is better the h2 starts a new column flow
[3:38pm] PeterThoeny: ok, i'll handle it as a feature item in bugs web
[3:39pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 2. Extensions
[3:39pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/WebChanges
[3:39pm] PeterThoeny: we covered AutoSectionsPlugin
[3:39pm] PeterThoeny: DataTablePlugin by HideyoImazu-san
[3:39pm] HideyoImazu: minor changes
[3:40pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/FileUploadPlugin
[3:40pm] PeterThoeny: doc update on limitation
[3:40pm] PeterThoeny: twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/WatchlistPlugin
[3:40pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/WatchlistPlugin
[3:40pm] PeterThoeny: i fixed a bug, preferences changes where not saved due to missing </form> in previous tab
[3:41pm] PeterThoeny: wodnering what took so long to discover this bug 
[3:41pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/CgiContrib
[3:42pm] PeterThoeny: ah, HaraldJoerg added note about older twiki releases
[3:42pm] HaraldJoerg: No functional enhancement, just a note that it doesn't work for configure
[3:42pm] PeterThoeny: but i notice the package is still old from last nov
[3:43pm] PeterThoeny: better to update package i think
[3:43pm] HaraldJoerg: ah, ok, the package contains the topic, too
[3:44pm] HaraldJoerg: As far as I see it now, the contrib has little use
[3:44pm] PeterThoeny: but we have to watch out, isn't cgicontrib in trunk and 6.0 branch different?
[3:44pm] HaraldJoerg: Yes, it is different, because trunk works with CGI 4.13, but 06x00 doesn't
[3:45pm] HaraldJoerg: The changes in trunk haven't been backported to the branch
[3:45pm] PeterThoeny: so the package should be built from branch, right?
[3:45pm] HaraldJoerg: Yes, that's what I did
[3:45pm] PeterThoeny: can you re-upload?
[3:45pm] HaraldJoerg: So the doc update needs to be done in the branch
[3:46pm] PeterThoeny: yes
[3:46pm] HaraldJoerg: I'll have a look
[3:46pm] PeterThoeny: ok
[3:46pm] PeterThoeny: that is all on extensions
[3:46pm] PeterThoeny: anything else?
[3:46pm] HaraldJoerg: not from me
[3:46pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 3. Review Urgent and Not So Urgent Bugs
[3:46pm] PeterThoeny: http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/WebChanges
[3:47pm] PeterThoeny: any bug you'd like to discuss?
[3:47pm] PeterThoeny: maybe this one:
[3:47pm] PeterThoeny: http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/Item7721
[3:48pm] PeterThoeny: TWiki 6 fails with "insecure dependency" on recent (2016) Linux distributions
[3:48pm] HaraldJoerg: Yeah, that's a nasty one because we can't do anything about it
[3:48pm] HaraldJoerg: short of eliminating CGI::Session
[3:48pm] PeterThoeny: any workaround, such as by untainting variables?
[3:49pm] HaraldJoerg: TWiki doesn't create the session IDs, so I don't see where it can untaint them
[3:50pm] PeterThoeny: if untaint not possible in twiki code, can we provide a patch for twikiadmins to patch cgi::session?
[3:50pm] HaraldJoerg: That would need messing with internals of CGI::Session
[3:50pm] PeterThoeny: other projects must run into the same issue. no?
[3:51pm] HaraldJoerg: Some projects seem to have abandoned taint mode
[3:51pm] PeterThoeny: ouch
[3:52pm] PeterThoeny: ok, so no action for now
[3:52pm] PeterThoeny: or can we nudge the maintainer of cgi::session?
[3:53pm] PeterThoeny: http://search.cpan.org/~markstos/CGI-Session-4.48/lib/CGI/Session.pm
[3:53pm] HaraldJoerg: The problem is that I can't provide a test case
[3:54pm] PeterThoeny: let me contact sherzod anyway
[3:54pm] PeterThoeny: i see that's all on bugs since last time
[3:54pm] PeterThoeny: anything else?
[3:54pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 4. Miscellaneous
[3:55pm] PeterThoeny: anything misc?
[3:55pm] HaraldJoerg: not from here
[3:55pm] HideyoImazu: not from me
[3:55pm] PeterThoeny: ok, let's close
[3:55pm] PeterThoeny: thank you HaraldJoerg & HideyoImazu-san!
[3:56pm] PeterThoeny: i'll post the minutes and logs as usual
[3:56pm] PeterThoeny: ttyl
[3:56pm] HaraldJoerg: ttyl
[3:56pm] HideyoImazu: ttyl