Subject: KampalaMeetingLog2015x06x04.txt
Date: June 4, 2015 4:17:40 PM PDT

[2:59pm]  HideyoImazu joined the chat room.
[3:00pm] PeterThoeny: good morning HideyoImazu-san!
[3:00pm]  HaraldJoerg joined the chat room.
[3:00pm] HideyoImazu: Hi Peter
[3:00pm] PeterThoeny: good evening HaraldJoerg!
[3:01pm] HaraldJoerg: Hello Peter & Hideyo-san!
[3:01pm] HideyoImazu: Hi Harald
[3:01pm] PeterThoeny: what is new in the land of the sun?
[3:02pm] HideyoImazu: rainy season is about to start in Tokyo
[3:02pm] HideyoImazu: but not yet
[3:02pm] HaraldJoerg: Germany was pretty sunny today, will be still hotter tomorrow
[3:03pm] PeterThoeny: nice weather here, need more rain
[3:04pm] PeterThoeny: in two weeks my son and i go to the black rock desert again yto launch rockets, looking forward to that
[3:05pm] HideyoImazu: I need to write a fund raising site for a company charity event
[3:05pm] HideyoImazu: I'm writing it in TWiki
[3:05pm] PeterThoeny: nice!
[3:06pm] PeterThoeny: do you use the PublishWebPlugin, or public TWiki?
[3:06pm] HideyoImazu: the site is mainly for money collection
[3:06pm] HideyoImazu: it will be implemented on TWiki plainly
[3:07pm] PeterThoeny: i have done a number of websites using the publish plugin, such as http://otopy.com/
[3:07pm] HideyoImazu: a donor visits the site, enter an amount to pledge
[3:08pm] PeterThoeny: content is authored in the company intranet twiki
[3:08pm] HideyoImazu: after donation period ends, an Excel file is generated, which is handed to HR for deduction
[3:08pm] PeterThoeny: what engine do you use for financial transaction?
[3:08pm] HideyoImazu: low tech -- handing an Excel file
[3:09pm] PeterThoeny: well, how do people donate? paypal?
[3:09pm] HideyoImazu: deduction from their pay check
[3:09pm] PeterThoeny: ah, just pledge promise
[3:10pm] HideyoImazu: not quite
[3:10pm] PeterThoeny: oic, so for employees
[3:10pm] HideyoImazu: HR checks it and then hand it to payroll
[3:10pm] PeterThoeny: got it
[3:10pm] HideyoImazu: payroll deducts the amount in the next payment
[3:11pm] HideyoImazu: dynamic access control is handy here
[3:11pm] PeterThoeny: you could create a custom commentplugin template that adds a row to a table containing person's name 
and pledge amount
[3:12pm] HideyoImazu: each donor's information is stored in the topic of their wiki name
[3:12pm] HideyoImazu: user have view/change access to their information only
[3:12pm] PeterThoeny: makes sense
[3:13pm] PeterThoeny: time check: +13 min
[3:13pm] PeterThoeny: let's start
[3:13pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/KampalaReleaseMeeting2015x06x04
[3:13pm] PeterThoeny: usual agenda:
[3:13pm] PeterThoeny: 1. Feature Requests for Kampala Release
[3:13pm] PeterThoeny: 2. Extensions
[3:13pm] PeterThoeny: 3. Review Urgent and Not So Urgent Bugs
[3:13pm] PeterThoeny: 4. Miscellaneous
[3:13pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 1. Feature Requests for Kampala Release
[3:13pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiFeatureProposals
[3:13pm] PeterThoeny: and
[3:14pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/WebChanges
[3:14pm] PeterThoeny: not much activity since last time
[3:14pm] PeterThoeny: except for HaraldJoerg's big contribution
[3:15pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/PortableTWiki
[3:15pm] HaraldJoerg: It came later than I hoped for, real life kicked in (tax declaration was due)
[3:16pm] PeterThoeny: ah, darn taxes
[3:16pm] PeterThoeny: i have seen you upload the package to https://sourceforge.net/projects/twiki/files/TWiki-Personal/
[3:16pm] HaraldJoerg: Can't download TWP from sourceforge web interface... but sftp works fine, so it might be a matter 
of mirroring?
[3:17pm] PeterThoeny: i recommend adding a readme
[3:17pm] PeterThoeny: actually, a README.txt
[3:17pm] PeterThoeny: it will be shown inlined
[3:17pm] HaraldJoerg: Yes, README would be nice, including some installation instructions
[3:17pm] PeterThoeny: could be a one line description, with pointer to twiki.org package home
[3:18pm] HaraldJoerg: I wonder.. would it be better to move the current download to a 'Windows' subdirectory?
[3:18pm] PeterThoeny: about package home, do you intend to create one?
[3:18pm] PeterThoeny: such as TWikiPersonal in the Codev web?
[3:18pm] HaraldJoerg: Should be done, yes - what's a good place?
[3:19pm] PeterThoeny: i think Codev.TWikiPersonal would be good
[3:19pm] HaraldJoerg: Ah, fine, doesn't exist yet
[3:19pm] PeterThoeny: then we can add a yellow banner to Codev.TWikiForWindowsPersonal with pinyter to the new topic
[3:20pm] HaraldJoerg: I should point out that the current stuff is Windows only
[3:20pm] PeterThoeny: i think the dir on sf.net is good as is, you can upload packages for additional plaforms to the same dir
[3:21pm] PeterThoeny: although it might make sense to add a subdir for twiki version, as we have now for the all platforms dir
[3:21pm] HaraldJoerg: Yeah, but then the file name should indicate "Windows" - I missed that
[3:21pm] PeterThoeny: ah, yes, better to have the windows specific part in the package name
[3:23pm] PeterThoeny: sf.net has a generic download for files regadless of dir
[3:23pm] HaraldJoerg: I'm not sure where to go next: TWikiPersonal for Linux (which I don't really need, because on Linux I 
use TWiki on Apache) or TWiki for enterprise Windows
[3:23pm] PeterThoeny: for example, the old twiki for windows personal is 
http://sourceforge.net/project/downloading.php?group_id=3657&filename=TWiki-WP-4.0.5.zip
[3:23pm] PeterThoeny: should work the same for the twiki-personal
[3:24pm] PeterThoeny: a twiki personal for mac would be nice 
[3:24pm] HaraldJoerg: Oh, your link works fine! So what's the matter with the web interface?
[3:25pm] PeterThoeny: when you create the TWikiPersonal topic you can look at 
http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiForWindowsPersonal for the download box etc
[3:25pm] HaraldJoerg: Regarding TWiki personal for mac: I don't have a mac, but building it using the same procedure as I 
am using for Windows should work rather easy
[3:26pm] PeterThoeny: mac is more or less linux
[3:26pm] PeterThoeny: as far as system tools is concernd (ssh, perl, etc)
[3:27pm] HaraldJoerg: Ah, ok... so all we need is a package containing the web server and the CPAN prerequisites
[3:27pm] PeterThoeny: before linking to attachment on sf.net better to rename the package
[3:27pm] PeterThoeny: actually, apache is already installed
[3:27pm] PeterThoeny: but not enabled by default
[3:28pm] PeterThoeny: but you do not need apache anyway
[3:28pm] HaraldJoerg: The platform-specifics come from dynamic libraries (.so on Linux, .dll on Windows) - the packer Does 
The Right Thing, but only on the platform it is running on
[3:29pm] HaraldJoerg: ...and yes, for personal use I'd like to avoid Apache
[3:29pm] PeterThoeny: if i find time i can look at this
[3:29pm] PeterThoeny: what package name will you use for twiki-personal?
[3:30pm] HaraldJoerg: Should it contain both version and platform?
[3:31pm] PeterThoeny: i think so
[3:31pm] PeterThoeny: such as TWiki-Personal-Win-6.0.2-alpha.zip
[3:31pm] HaraldJoerg: Yes, that's what I was typing, but you were faster 
[3:31pm] PeterThoeny: and TWiki-Personal-OSX-6.0.2-alpha.zip or teh like
[3:32pm] PeterThoeny: 
[3:32pm] PeterThoeny: and TWiki-Personal-iOS-6.0.2-alpha.zip 
[3:32pm] HaraldJoerg: I *guess* that the packing procedure for OSX and Linux are identical
[3:33pm] PeterThoeny: what about a twiki app for iphone?
[3:34pm] HaraldJoerg: So maybe I can enhance 'twikidev packtwp' to automatically detect the platform and then create the 
right package
[3:34pm] HaraldJoerg: Is there a Perl for iphone?
[3:35pm] PeterThoeny: no idea
[3:35pm] PeterThoeny: your new twikidev tool looks very user friendly
[3:36pm] HideyoImazu: it seems available on app store
[3:36pm] HaraldJoerg: The package needs to be created on the target platform, so someone would need sort of a shell access 
to iphone and a pretty rich Perl developer environment...
[3:36pm] PeterThoeny: that you for creating it!
[3:37pm] PeterThoeny: "thank you for"...
[3:37pm] HaraldJoerg: I do a lot of MooseX::App::Cmd stuff recently, and it really pays off
[3:37pm] HideyoImazu: I mean "Perl Programming Language" app on app store
[3:37pm] HaraldJoerg: So then, whoever owns an iphone, can try to run twikidev packtwp 
[3:38pm] PeterThoeny: well, the iphone is a closed system
[3:38pm] HaraldJoerg: (if I enhance it for non-Windows packaging)
[3:38pm] PeterThoeny: i think all apps need to be developped outside the iphone, then installed on the iphone
[3:39pm] PeterThoeny: before we move on, anything else on twikidev and twiki-personal?
[3:39pm] HaraldJoerg: If Perl is available, then a restricted TWiki can be built platform-independently
[3:39pm] HideyoImazu: at least there is a person who made Perl work on iPhone. not sure that person is willing to disclose 
how he did it
[3:40pm] HaraldJoerg: "restricted" because it can't use HTTPS, and can't install extensions
[3:40pm] PeterThoeny: i suspect it is perl packaged as an iphone app, where you can load perl for execution
[3:41pm] HaraldJoerg: I am considering a move towards "TWiki for Windows servers - enterprise edition"
[3:41pm] PeterThoeny: as for smarphone, we first need to make the skin mobile friendly (i work slowly on this)
[3:41pm] PeterThoeny: what is the advantage of a enterprise edition?
[3:41pm] HaraldJoerg: Windows folks frown at Apache
[3:42pm] PeterThoeny: compared to threading & load balancing using apache?
[3:42pm] HaraldJoerg: Starman does the same, all in Perl
[3:42pm] PeterThoeny: question i have if it scales?
[3:42pm] HaraldJoerg: The interesting part is Active Directory integration
[3:43pm] HaraldJoerg: With Apache, I'm doing it with mod_auth_kerb, with PSGI the appropriate middleware needs to be written 
(based on existing CPAN stuff)
[3:44pm] PeterThoeny: yes, in enterprise almost always you want ad integration
[3:44pm] PeterThoeny: twiki has the LdapContrib for that
[3:45pm] HaraldJoerg: LDAP is only part of the AD story.... Authentication with AD is usually done using the Kerberos protocol
[3:45pm] HaraldJoerg: (no need to enter a password for the user)
[3:46pm] HaraldJoerg: LDAP can add group memberships
[3:46pm] PeterThoeny: yes, sso is more user friendly
[3:47pm] PeterThoeny: let's move on
[3:47pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/SearchAttachmentsInAWeb
[3:47pm] PeterThoeny: this is now done, i need to change the status
[3:47pm] PeterThoeny: this is all on features
[3:48pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 2. Extensions
[3:48pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/WebChanges
[3:48pm] PeterThoeny: many updates, but just minor ones
[3:49pm] HaraldJoerg: Does it make sense to push TWikiDevContrib to the Plugins web?  It is not meant to be installed by 
TWiki users
[3:49pm] PeterThoeny: i don't think it makes much sense
[3:49pm] PeterThoeny: actually, one reason could be to raise the awareness
[3:50pm] PeterThoeny: so that new developers can discover it
[3:50pm] PeterThoeny: up to you 
[3:50pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/IfThenActionPlugin
[3:51pm] PeterThoeny: one new enhancement:
[3:51pm] PeterThoeny: New "attachsection" then-action to attach the content of a section as a file attachment
[3:51pm] PeterThoeny: the idea is to create .css and .js files inside twiki pages, then attach those as attachments each 
time you update the topic
[3:52pm] PeterThoeny: i use this at a twiki site that uses the PublishWebPlugin
[3:52pm] PeterThoeny: so now i can maintain all website files in twiki itself
[3:52pm] HaraldJoerg: Makes sense because documentation and css/js are in one place
[3:53pm] HideyoImazu: that's cool
[3:53pm] PeterThoeny: that is all i have on extensions
[3:53pm] HaraldJoerg: So you can sort of "edit attachments" 
[3:54pm] PeterThoeny: yes 
[3:55pm] PeterThoeny: you can define a generic rule to attach all section named somerhing.css and something.js
[3:55pm] PeterThoeny: anything else on extensions?
[3:56pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 3. Review Urgent and Not So Urgent Bugs
[3:56pm] PeterThoeny: http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/Item7620 - Add CGI to TWiki core distribution
[3:56pm] PeterThoeny: thank you harld!
[3:56pm] HaraldJoerg: That had just to be copied to 06x00, the work in trunk was done
[3:57pm] PeterThoeny: ok
[3:57pm] PeterThoeny: thanks hideyo-san for tools/tick_twiki.pl fix
[3:57pm] PeterThoeny: i did a small fix in slim_box user report
[3:57pm] PeterThoeny: that is all since last time
[3:57pm] PeterThoeny: any bug we should look at?
[3:58pm] HaraldJoerg: Not for me
[3:58pm] HideyoImazu: no
[3:58pm] PeterThoeny: ok, let's close the meeting
[3:58pm] PeterThoeny: just in time
[3:59pm] PeterThoeny: i'll post the logs and minutes as usual
[3:59pm] PeterThoeny: thank you HideyoImazu-san and HaraldJoerg!
[3:59pm] HideyoImazu: ttyl
[3:59pm] HaraldJoerg: I'm curious: Has anybody tried to run the PSGI engine on a SVN checkout?
[4:00pm] PeterThoeny: not yet, i'll try
[4:03pm]  HideyoImazu left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[4:04pm] HaraldJoerg: I'll try to make progress with test automation using PSGI... but there are so many other interesting 
options 
[4:04pm] HaraldJoerg: Maybe there's news in two weeks.  TTYL!
[4:05pm] PeterThoeny: ttyl!
[4:05pm]  HaraldJoerg left the chat room.