Subject: KampalaMeetingLog2015x05x07.txt
Date: May 7, 2015 4:15:23 PM PDT

[3:02pm]  HaraldJoerg joined the chat room.
[3:02pm] PeterThoeny: hi HaraldJoerg!
[3:03pm] PeterThoeny: guten abend
[3:03pm] HaraldJoerg: Guten Abend!
[3:03pm] PeterThoeny: i see you made good progress on the portable twiki
[3:04pm]  HideyoImazu joined the chat room.
[3:04pm] HaraldJoerg: Yes - but there are still a couple of rough edges
[3:04pm] PeterThoeny: good morning HideyoImazu-san!
[3:04pm] HideyoImazu: Hi Peter and Harald!
[3:04pm] PeterThoeny: we have now three continents present
[3:04pm] HaraldJoerg: Hi Hideyo-san!
[3:07pm] PeterThoeny: not sure yet, but i _might_ go to slovakia for a business trip
[3:07pm] PeterThoeny: never been in bratislava, would be cool to visit for photography
[3:07pm] PeterThoeny: what's new in japan, in germany?
[3:08pm] HaraldJoerg: I've been distracted by "normal" work in the last weeks
[3:09pm] HaraldJoerg: So not much progress with experimenting with various plugins in Personal
[3:09pm] PeterThoeny: nice
[3:10pm] PeterThoeny: shall we start with meeting?
[3:10pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/KampalaReleaseMeeting2015x05x07
[3:10pm] HaraldJoerg: Yep
[3:10pm] PeterThoeny: agenda:
[3:10pm] PeterThoeny: 1. Feature Requests for Kampala Release
[3:10pm] PeterThoeny: 2. Extensions
[3:10pm] PeterThoeny: 3. Review Urgent and Not So Urgent Bugs
[3:10pm] PeterThoeny: 4. Miscellaneous
[3:10pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 1. Feature Requests for Kampala Release
[3:10pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/WebChanges
[3:11pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/PortableTWiki - portable twiki
[3:11pm] PeterThoeny: can you give an update harald?
[3:12pm] HaraldJoerg: Mostly I did some "real life" tests... installed it on various systems Win7 32Bit, 64Bit
[3:12pm] HaraldJoerg: Some plugins which have "nonstandard" starters in bin don't work
[3:13pm] PeterThoeny: i have not tried yet, i'd like to, but i first need to get hold of a windows machine
[3:13pm] PeterThoeny: or i could try on mac
[3:13pm] HaraldJoerg: You would need to build it for Mac, right?
[3:13pm] PeterThoeny: yes
[3:14pm] PeterThoeny: actually, i could try to run it on windows in vmware
[3:14pm] HideyoImazu: one thing from me. you don't have to be sorry about it doesn't fit to a 32MB memory stick. These 
days flash memories are in GB
[3:14pm] PeterThoeny: but at this time i only have an old xp in vmware
[3:15pm] PeterThoeny: xp is likely too old for prtable twiki, right?
[3:15pm] HaraldJoerg: HideyoImazu:  Yes, of course, only I found an old stick in my drawer and it has just 32MB
[3:15pm] HaraldJoerg: It's the stick that has been in the washing machine once, and survived
[3:15pm] HideyoImazu: I'm old enough to have 16MB SD memory card
[3:15pm] PeterThoeny: can be donated soon to the computer history museum in mountain view
[3:16pm] HaraldJoerg: I don't know about XP - does current Strawberry Perl run on XP?
[3:16pm] PeterThoeny: no idea
[3:17pm] PeterThoeny: anything else on portable twiki?
[3:17pm] PeterThoeny: actually, i have:
[3:17pm] PeterThoeny: upload to sf.net
[3:18pm] PeterThoeny: i think sf.net is the logical place to have the portable twiki
[3:18pm] HaraldJoerg: For packaging the Windows binary, there should be an initial LocalSite.cfg
[3:19pm] HaraldJoerg: I changed the bootstrapping process to use relative paths, works much better
[3:19pm] PeterThoeny: just create one and ship with it 
[3:20pm] HaraldJoerg: It needs to be done carefully because of the way configure does its bootstrapping
[3:20pm] PeterThoeny: harald: i can add you as a member of the twiki project on twiki.org so that you can upload the zip file
[3:20pm] PeterThoeny: sorry, i meant on sf.net
[3:21pm] HaraldJoerg: I could do that, but it should still be flagged as experimental
[3:21pm] PeterThoeny: what is your sf.net user name?
[3:21pm] HaraldJoerg: It needs a few patches not yet in 6.0.1
[3:21pm] HaraldJoerg: Ah, I think I don't have a sf user name right now
[3:21pm] PeterThoeny: ah
[3:22pm] PeterThoeny: ok, let me know when ready, i can add you as a member
[3:22pm] PeterThoeny: next topic:
[3:22pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/ResponsiveTopMenuSkin
[3:22pm] HaraldJoerg: Fine, this can be done offline per mail
[3:22pm] PeterThoeny: twiki does not yet work well on mobile devices
[3:23pm] HaraldJoerg: Ah, this is interesting... I found the same issues when running Personal on tablets
[3:23pm] PeterThoeny: google is starting to penalize mobile-unfriendly sites with lower page rank
[3:23pm] PeterThoeny: more people use mobile (tablets and phone)
[3:23pm] PeterThoeny: so it is important that twiki is usable on mobiles
[3:23pm] HaraldJoerg: Topmenu is really difficult to use on a touchscreen because it doesn't stay open
[3:24pm] PeterThoeny: this proposal addresses that need
[3:24pm] PeterThoeny: well two issues with top-menu
[3:25pm] PeterThoeny: 1. uses too much space on small device, e.g. drop down on the right disappear
[3:25pm] PeterThoeny: 2. navigation issue, as you mentioned
[3:25pm] PeterThoeny: navigation issue is one or no issue depending on browser (& os?)
[3:26pm] HaraldJoerg: Probably yes, I only tried Win 8.1
[3:26pm] PeterThoeny: on iphone navigation works fine: click on a pulldown, it opens, click on an itrem (including top 
one) to select
[3:26pm] PeterThoeny: well, s/click/touch/
[3:26pm] PeterThoeny: i will work on this as time permits
[3:27pm] PeterThoeny: feature is accepted as of 2 days ago by 7 day feeback
[3:27pm] PeterThoeny: "feedback"
[3:27pm] PeterThoeny: i did some preliminary work:
[3:28pm] PeterThoeny: new feature for multi-column page layout, that degrades gradually to a single column depending 
on screen/window width
[3:28pm] PeterThoeny: see in action at http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/ResponsiveWebDesign
[3:29pm] PeterThoeny: resize the window, the two columns will snap to a single column
[3:29pm] PeterThoeny: the image at the bottom will resize automagically based on column size
[3:29pm] PeterThoeny: i think that is pretty useful
[3:30pm] PeterThoeny: the two column feature can also be used to write papers in twiki
[3:30pm] PeterThoeny: when you print, it columns flow properly on a page basis
[3:31pm] HaraldJoerg: I find multicolumn difficult to read on-screen
[3:31pm] PeterThoeny: i like it if not over-used
[3:32pm] PeterThoeny: this feature is optional with %TWOCOLUMNS% ...text... %ENDCOLUMNS%
[3:33pm] PeterThoeny: this is all i had on features
[3:33pm] HaraldJoerg: I don't see two columns with Firefox
[3:33pm] PeterThoeny: anything else?
[3:33pm] PeterThoeny: what version of ff?
[3:33pm] PeterThoeny: ah, do a shift-reload, the css needs to reload
[3:34pm] HaraldJoerg: Ah, ok, that did the trick
[3:34pm] PeterThoeny: 
[3:34pm] PeterThoeny: let's move on
[3:34pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 2. Extensions
[3:35pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/WebChanges
[3:35pm] PeterThoeny: PatternSkin - just updated for multi-column feature
[3:36pm] PeterThoeny: if you want this feature update to latest PatternSkin, and add the settings in TWikiPreferences 
as per http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/Item7649
[3:36pm] PeterThoeny: MailInContrib - some small enhancements
[3:37pm] PeterThoeny: i use this now extensively for my consulting
[3:37pm] PeterThoeny: the consulting crm is a twiki-based app
[3:37pm] PeterThoeny: i now cc the crm page of contacts i e-mail
[3:37pm] PeterThoeny: so i have a record of my customer interactions
[3:37pm] PeterThoeny: very useful
[3:38pm] PeterThoeny: IfThenActionPlugin - some addtional features
[3:38pm] PeterThoeny: this plugin is now pretty much feature complete
[3:38pm] PeterThoeny: i blogged about it at http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Blog/BlogEntry201504x2
[3:38pm] PeterThoeny: the blog has three examples
[3:39pm] PeterThoeny: PSGIEngineContrib - harald
[3:40pm] PeterThoeny: we talked about the portable twiki
[3:40pm] PeterThoeny: a few other extensions have been updated as well
[3:40pm] HaraldJoerg: Yes, but I use PSGI for testing in SVN as well
[3:40pm] PeterThoeny: anything else on extensions?
[3:41pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 3. Review Urgent and Not So Urgent Bugs
[3:41pm] PeterThoeny: http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/WebChanges
[3:41pm] PeterThoeny: any bug you'd like to cover?
[3:42pm] PeterThoeny: maybe one fyi:
[3:42pm] PeterThoeny: http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/Item7645 - New CHILDREN variable
[3:42pm] PeterThoeny: this is just a meta search in a twiki prefs
[3:43pm] HaraldJoerg: Does it find children across webs?
[3:43pm] PeterThoeny: i also created new VarCHILDREN doc topic so that it can be discovered via the variable browser
[3:43pm] PeterThoeny: no, just in current web
[3:44pm] PeterThoeny: parent/child across web is technically possible, but i never use it
[3:44pm] PeterThoeny: i actually consider this a bug
[3:45pm] PeterThoeny: it goes against the mental model of twiki => webs => topics (with optional parent trail)
[3:45pm] HaraldJoerg: We use it occasionally because our access control is more or less exclusively by-web
[3:45pm] HaraldJoerg: There's a public web, and a few restricted ones
[3:46pm] PeterThoeny: yes, makes sense to split up content in webs based on access control
[3:46pm] PeterThoeny: instead of parent across web you can include a header/footer that offers the navigation across webs
[3:46pm] HaraldJoerg: So, sometimes a topic is "published" by just moving it from the restricted area to the public web
[3:48pm] PeterThoeny: i now often use a topic view template to include a header and footer
[3:48pm] PeterThoeny: that way the topic stays clean with just content
[3:48pm] PeterThoeny: and logic (navigation, view meta data, chaneg meta data) is out of the way in header and footer
[3:48pm] HaraldJoerg: Same here... the breadcrumbs are in the header
[3:49pm] PeterThoeny: if you have two different webs, the header and footer can be different, so that you get different 
ui on a topicm simply by moving the topic across webs
[3:50pm] PeterThoeny: e.g. without change to topic
[3:50pm] PeterThoeny: that way you can have control over navigation
[3:50pm] HaraldJoerg: I'd like to keep the UI without changes
[3:51pm] HaraldJoerg: For navigation, I mimick the official (sharepoint-based) intranet, so that readers don't need to 
rewire their habits
[3:51pm] HaraldJoerg: TWiki is but one of many information sources in our intranet (and a tiny one)
[3:51pm] PeterThoeny: that makes sense
[3:52pm] PeterThoeny: LoadAppPlugin - i need to resome work on this one
[3:52pm] PeterThoeny: this is all i have on bugs web
[3:52pm] PeterThoeny: anything?
[3:52pm] HideyoImazu: not from me
[3:52pm] HaraldJoerg: Nope
[3:52pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 4. Miscellaneous
[3:53pm] PeterThoeny: anything?
[3:53pm] PeterThoeny: any twiki news from you hideyo-san?
[3:54pm] HideyoImazu: no
[3:54pm] HideyoImazu: i've been busy migrating to new servers
[3:54pm] HideyoImazu: in a big IT organization, seemingly simple change takes a lot of time and effort
[3:54pm] PeterThoeny: in vmware? bare bone linux?
[3:55pm] HideyoImazu: vmware
[3:55pm] PeterThoeny: any blog ideas?
[3:56pm] PeterThoeny: i set a goal for myself to write a blog per month
[3:57pm] HideyoImazu: i made a small no-brainer change to core. once I'm done with the migration, i'll contribute
[3:57pm] PeterThoeny: i intend to write one about the responsive multi-column page layout
[3:57pm] HideyoImazu: not related to twiki, but I started using Apple Watch
[3:58pm] HideyoImazu: it's an interesting toy
[3:58pm] PeterThoeny: ah, early adoper 
[3:58pm] PeterThoeny: "adopter"
[3:58pm] PeterThoeny: you like it so far?
[3:58pm] HideyoImazu: yes, I like it so far.
[3:59pm] PeterThoeny: as i understand it is mainly an extension for the iphone
[3:59pm] HideyoImazu: that's correct.
[4:00pm] HideyoImazu: but raising your wrist is easier than taking out an iphone
[4:00pm] PeterThoeny: yup
[4:00pm] PeterThoeny: time check: +60 min
[4:00pm] PeterThoeny: just in time
[4:00pm] PeterThoeny: i'll post the logs
[4:00pm] HideyoImazu: I don't use siri with iphone, but I like to use siri on apple watch
[4:00pm] PeterThoeny: thanks for participating!
[4:00pm] HideyoImazu: ttyl!
[4:00pm] PeterThoeny: ttyl HideyoImazu-san & HaraldJoerg!
[4:01pm]  HideyoImazu left the chat room. (Quit: Page closed)
[4:01pm] HaraldJoerg: Goodbye!
[4:01pm]  HaraldJoerg left the chat room.