Subject: KampalaMeetingLog2015x03x19.txt
Date: March 19, 2015 3:43:03 PM PDT

[3:01pm]  HideyoImazu joined the chat room.
[3:02pm] PeterThoeny: hi HideyoImazu-san!
[3:02pm] PeterThoeny: now in usa?
[3:02pm] HideyoImazu: Hi Peter
[3:02pm] HideyoImazu: yes. I'm in NY
[3:02pm] PeterThoeny: cold?
[3:03pm] HideyoImazu: cold but not so much
[3:03pm] HideyoImazu: earlier this week, I was in Montreal
[3:03pm] HideyoImazu: low was -10C or lower
[3:03pm] HideyoImazu: NY the low is 0C or so
[3:03pm] PeterThoeny: in cupertino it is currently 24 C
[3:03pm] HideyoImazu: wow
[3:04pm] PeterThoeny: we are spoiled here
[3:04pm] HideyoImazu: I suppose so
[3:04pm] PeterThoeny: how long will you be in nyc?
[3:04pm] HideyoImazu: a week
[3:05pm] HideyoImazu: i will go back to tokyo on wed in the morning
[3:05pm] PeterThoeny: good food in nyc
[3:05pm] PeterThoeny: and the best bagels in the world
[3:06pm] HideyoImazu: bagel here is good
[3:06pm] HideyoImazu: even from a street vendor
[3:06pm] PeterThoeny: yes
[3:07pm] PeterThoeny: ok, let's make this quick
[3:07pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/KampalaReleaseMeeting2015x03x19
[3:07pm] PeterThoeny: agenda:
[3:07pm] PeterThoeny: 1. Feature Requests for Kampala Release
[3:07pm] PeterThoeny: 2. Extensions
[3:07pm] PeterThoeny: 3. Review Urgent and Not So Urgent Bugs
[3:07pm] PeterThoeny: 4. Miscellaneous
[3:07pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 1. Feature Requests for Kampala Release
[3:07pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiFeatureProposals
[3:08pm] PeterThoeny: no new proposals
[3:08pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/ControlOverFormFieldRenderingInSearch
[3:08pm] PeterThoeny: is merged to core
[3:09pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/AddCGIpmToTWikiCore
[3:09pm] PeterThoeny: harald committed to work on this
[3:09pm] HideyoImazu: cool
[3:09pm] PeterThoeny: he will create a CGIContrib that contains cgi.pm
[3:10pm] PeterThoeny: it will be installed in the twiki/lib path
[3:10pm] PeterThoeny: he plans to use a recent one
[3:10pm] PeterThoeny: and fix twiki core as needed
[3:10pm] PeterThoeny: that is all i have on features
[3:10pm] PeterThoeny: anything else?
[3:10pm] HideyoImazu: no
[3:11pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 2. Extensions
[3:11pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/WebChanges
[3:11pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/TreePlugin
[3:11pm] PeterThoeny: i did a bug fix
[3:11pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/VarCachePlugin
[3:12pm] PeterThoeny: i did enhance it
[3:12pm] PeterThoeny: cache invalidation worked already with include and parent
[3:12pm] PeterThoeny: now it supports parent path using e.g. parent(32)
[3:13pm] PeterThoeny: i needed this for a requirements app that has hierarchical req topics
[3:13pm] PeterThoeny: caching the main report reslted in outdated data
[3:13pm] PeterThoeny: e.g. reporat was outdated if a grand-child was updated
[3:14pm] PeterThoeny: with parent(…) you can now properly invalidate topics in the parent path
[3:14pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/SetGetPlugin
[3:14pm] PeterThoeny: still work in progress
[3:14pm] PeterThoeny: 90% done in trunk
[3:15pm] PeterThoeny: not yet published
[3:15pm] PeterThoeny: 'll investigate the issue you pointed out
[3:15pm] HideyoImazu: ok
[3:15pm] HideyoImazu: incidentally
[3:16pm] HideyoImazu: I realized that the attach script doesn't take the redirectto parameter
[3:16pm] HideyoImazu: and I need it
[3:16pm] HideyoImazu: do I need to go through the feature proposal process?
[3:16pm] PeterThoeny: i think that is a no-brainer
[3:17pm] PeterThoeny: just handle as a bug and mark as enhancement
[3:17pm] HideyoImazu: ok. I thought so partly because the upload script takes redirectto already
[3:17pm] PeterThoeny: new plugin in work:
[3:17pm] HideyoImazu: so attach doesn't take it is inconsistent
[3:17pm] PeterThoeny: yes
[3:18pm] PeterThoeny: should be fixed
[3:18pm] PeterThoeny: new plugin in work:
[3:18pm] PeterThoeny: http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/Item7624: Initial version of LoadAppPlugin
[3:18pm] PeterThoeny: initial coding 80% done
[3:18pm] PeterThoeny: docs pending
[3:19pm] PeterThoeny: the plugin handles %LOADAPP{}%
[3:19pm] PeterThoeny: which does similarthing like %INCLUDE{}%
[3:19pm] PeterThoeny: purpose: load application components aka stored procedures
[3:20pm] PeterThoeny: for example you create a kb app and want to have all app logic in one hidden web, and have 
kbs in webs you need
[3:21pm] PeterThoeny: all report pages, topic headers & footers create new record etc are in the hidden app web
[3:21pm] PeterThoeny: in the webs where you want the kb you load the app pages
[3:21pm] PeterThoeny: makes it clean for app developers and users
[3:22pm] HideyoImazu: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/LoadAppPlugin doesn't exist
[3:22pm] PeterThoeny: added benefit: copyright protection for commercial code, e.g. app source is hidden
[3:22pm] PeterThoeny: not yet
[3:22pm] HideyoImazu: no documentation yet?
[3:22pm] PeterThoeny: once the initial version is done i publish it from trunk
[3:22pm] PeterThoeny: no docs yet
[3:22pm] HideyoImazu: ok
[3:23pm] PeterThoeny: to be written
[3:23pm] HideyoImazu: ok
[3:23pm] PeterThoeny: use case: i offered to provide a kb to a club on a public twiki
[3:24pm] PeterThoeny: i do not want to have the kb shared to the world, but i would like to offer the kb to the 
club for free
[3:24pm] PeterThoeny: this is a kb app i sell to customers
[3:24pm] PeterThoeny: with the loadappplugin i can hide the source
[3:24pm] PeterThoeny: naturally, site admins can see the source, which is fine
[3:25pm] PeterThoeny: that is all i had on extensions
[3:25pm] PeterThoeny: anything else?
[3:26pm] HideyoImazu: no
[3:26pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 3. Review Urgent and Not So Urgent Bugs
[3:26pm] HideyoImazu: i'm looking forward to seeing the documentation
[3:26pm] PeterThoeny: http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/WebChanges
[3:26pm] PeterThoeny: harald did some work on unit test in regards to cgi.pm
[3:27pm] PeterThoeny: we covered other stuff
[3:27pm] PeterThoeny: anything else?
[3:27pm] HideyoImazu: no
[3:27pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 4. Miscellaneous
[3:27pm] PeterThoeny: anything?
[3:27pm] PeterThoeny: nothing from me
[3:28pm] HideyoImazu: nothing to me too
[3:28pm] HideyoImazu: from me
[3:28pm] PeterThoeny: ok, let's close the meeting
[3:28pm] PeterThoeny: i'll post the logs as usual
[3:28pm] HideyoImazu: ttyl
[3:28pm] PeterThoeny: have fun in nyc!
[3:28pm] PeterThoeny: ah, intersted in meeting a friend of mine?
[3:29pm] PeterThoeny: he writes for forbes magazine
[3:29pm] PeterThoeny: he lives in nyc
[3:52pm]  HaraldJoerg joined the chat room.
[3:57pm] PeterThoeny: hi harald
[3:57pm] PeterThoeny: you missed the meeting by one hour
[3:57pm] PeterThoeny: daylight saving time
[3:57pm] PeterThoeny: minutes just posted at http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/KampalaReleaseMeeting2015x03x19
[3:58pm] HaraldJoerg: Aaargh...
[3:58pm] HaraldJoerg: US switches to daylight saving time two weeks before EU... I forgot
[3:59pm] PeterThoeny: no prob
[3:59pm] PeterThoeny: but why can't there be more cooperation
[3:59pm] PeterThoeny: the northern hemnisphere should switch at the same time!
[4:00pm] HaraldJoerg: Would be too easy then, wouldn't it? 
[4:00pm]  HideyoImazu left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[4:00pm] PeterThoeny: yes, work for gov agents must be preserved at all cost 
[4:01pm] PeterThoeny: anything you'd like to discuss?
[4:01pm] PeterThoeny: what is the status on cgi contrib?
[4:02pm] HaraldJoerg: Nothing urgent, rather a question: Are Plugins maintained in branches, too?
[4:02pm] HaraldJoerg: About CGIContrib: Is checked in in trunk, you should be able to pseudo-install.pl it
[4:03pm] PeterThoeny: ah, cool
[4:04pm] PeterThoeny: yes, all extensions that are in the core distrib are maintained in trunk and usually kept 
in sync in latest branch
[4:04pm] PeterThoeny: up to extension developer for non-core extensions
[4:04pm] HaraldJoerg: I've intentionally kept the CGI test suite, but not committed the examples
[4:04pm] PeterThoeny: i maintain all extenions i handle in both places
[4:05pm] HaraldJoerg: Ah, and I renamed it to CgiContrib so that it is a wikiword, similar to other plugins
[4:06pm] HaraldJoerg: Ok, then I'll commit a minor fix in WatchlistPlugin to the 6.0 branch, too
[4:06pm] PeterThoeny: i made a simple shell script that copies relevant files to the equivalent branch
[4:06pm] PeterThoeny: cp2b - copies to branch
[4:07pm] PeterThoeny: cd2b - cd to branch
[4:07pm] PeterThoeny: cd2t - cd to trunk
[4:07pm] PeterThoeny: you get the idea
[4:07pm] HaraldJoerg: Yes, this isn't too complicated
[4:08pm] PeterThoeny: yes, please help maintain the watchlistplugin
[4:09pm] PeterThoeny: i also created a bunch of aliases
[4:09pm] PeterThoeny: such as:
[4:09pm] PeterThoeny: alias cdb='cd /var/www/example.com/svn/branches/TWikiRelease06x00;pwd'
[4:10pm] PeterThoeny: alias cdt='cd /var/www/example.com/svn/trunk;pwd'
[4:10pm] PeterThoeny: alias cdd='cd /var/www/example.com/svn/trunk/data;pwd'
[4:11pm] PeterThoeny: cdbd='cd /var/www/example.com/svn/branches/TWikiRelease06x00/data;pwd'
[4:11pm] PeterThoeny: etc
[4:11pm] HaraldJoerg: Ok, cool
[4:12pm] PeterThoeny: that way i can quicklygo to branch lib using:  cdbl
[4:13pm] PeterThoeny: alias cd2b='cd ../../branches/TWikiRelease06x00/`pwd|sed "s/.*\///"`;pwd'
[4:13pm] PeterThoeny: alias cd2t='cd ../../../trunk/`pwd|sed "s/.*\///"`;pwd'
[4:13pm] PeterThoeny: these two are to toggle an extension home between trunk and branch
[4:14pm] HaraldJoerg: Yeah, it's not symmetric... one ../ more when switching from branch to trunk
[4:14pm] PeterThoeny: yup
[4:14pm] PeterThoeny: did you read the minutes?
[4:14pm] HaraldJoerg: Yes
[4:14pm] PeterThoeny: wondering what you think about the new LoadAppPlugin
[4:15pm] PeterThoeny: still work in progress
[4:15pm] HaraldJoerg: I could not yet figure out what it is supposed to do 
[4:15pm] PeterThoeny: well, docs are pending
[4:16pm] PeterThoeny: read the irc log at 
http://twiki.org/p/pub/Codev/KampalaReleaseMeeting2015x03x19/KampalaMeetingLog2015x03x19.txt
[4:16pm] PeterThoeny: starts at [3:18pm] 
[4:16pm] HaraldJoerg: What's a kb?
[4:16pm] PeterThoeny: a sample app, in this case a knowledge base
[4:16pm] HaraldJoerg: Ah, ok
[4:17pm] PeterThoeny: can be any app
[4:18pm] HaraldJoerg: Now I understand the intention and the hack to do INCLUDE stuff without access control
[4:21pm] PeterThoeny: exactly, yes, bypassing the access control
[4:22pm] HaraldJoerg: Can this be abused to bypass access control by just saying "LOADAPP" instead of "INCLUDE"?
[4:22pm] PeterThoeny: to make this safe i have a mapping in configure, such as: kbHeader: kbHome: KBApp.KbHome,
 KBApp.KbHeader, kbAdd: KBApp.KbAddRecord, ...
[4:23pm] HaraldJoerg: Ah, ok... I didn't look in the details of the code
[4:23pm] PeterThoeny: so as long as configure is secure, the access control is secure
[4:25pm] HaraldJoerg: BTW: configure is tricky with regard to CgiContrib
[4:26pm] PeterThoeny: idea is to have an app packaged in an app web (KBApp), and a template web (_kbapp), so that 
once installed a new app web can be easily created based on the template web
[4:26pm] PeterThoeny: all app complexity is hidden from the user
[4:26pm] PeterThoeny: makes it clean for app developers, admins and users
[4:27pm] PeterThoeny: why is configure tricky?
[4:27pm] PeterThoeny: if cgicontrib is pre-installed, it can be assumed to be there
[4:28pm] HaraldJoerg: yes, but then the code needs some fixes
[4:28pm] HaraldJoerg: right now it loads CGI too early, before looking for TWiki libs
[4:29pm] HaraldJoerg: so it keeps using the system CGI, regardless of whether the contrib is installed
[4:31pm] PeterThoeny: ah
[4:31pm] PeterThoeny: true, so some code tweaking is needed
[4:32pm] PeterThoeny: most twiki installs use the default dir structure, e.g. ../lib from bin
[4:32pm] PeterThoeny: twiki.org is an exception though
[4:33pm] PeterThoeny: and installs where user has no control over location of htdoc and cgi-bin
[4:33pm] PeterThoeny: in those instances it still works if bin/LocalLib.cfg is set properly
[4:34pm] PeterThoeny: hence setting bin/LocalLib.cfg can be a required prerequisit for running configure in a 
non-standard dir layout
[4:35pm] HaraldJoerg: Yes, that would avoid any problems
[4:35pm] HaraldJoerg: I am not at all in favor of setting the basic directories in configure anyway
[4:37pm] HaraldJoerg: when TWiki goes RPM, setting up a basic LocalSite.cfg can be done in a postinstall script
[4:38pm] PeterThoeny: yes
[4:38pm] PeterThoeny: i have an errant
[4:39pm] PeterThoeny: away for 30is min
[4:39pm] PeterThoeny: anything before i leave?
[4:39pm] HaraldJoerg: No, nothing else
[4:39pm] HaraldJoerg: In two weeks it's again midnight when the meeting starts
[4:40pm] PeterThoeny: ok, ttyl harald!
[4:40pm] HaraldJoerg: Goodbye!
[4:40pm]  HaraldJoerg left the chat room.