Subject: KampalaMeetingLog2014x09x18.txt
Date: September 18, 2014 3:57:31 PM PDT

[2:58pm]  HideyoImazu joined the chat room.
[2:59pm] PeterThoeny: hi HideyoImazu-san, brb
[2:59pm] HideyoImazu: Hi PetherThoeny
[3:03pm] PeterThoeny: …back
[3:03pm] PeterThoeny: how was your talk?
[3:04pm] PeterThoeny: i have seen the video
[3:04pm] HideyoImazu: it went ok.
[3:04pm] HideyoImazu: there was no time left for q and a
[3:04pm] PeterThoeny: it was short, just 20min
[3:04pm] HideyoImazu: right
[3:04pm] PeterThoeny: i think you could cover the basics well in the short time
[3:04pm] HideyoImazu: thanks
[3:04pm] PeterThoeny: was there a q&a afterwards?
[3:05pm] HideyoImazu: not really. but there was a banquet in the evening, in which I got some questions about twiki
[3:05pm] HideyoImazu: there are people who want to use a wiki platform not using db
[3:06pm] HideyoImazu: for those, twiki is nice
[3:06pm] HideyoImazu: i got that sort of feedback
[3:07pm] PeterThoeny: ah
[3:08pm] PeterThoeny: yes, easy to install and maintain without db
[3:08pm] PeterThoeny: and to integrate with other systems
[3:09pm] PeterThoeny: for better performance we should add a topic metadata store
[3:09pm] PeterThoeny: as we discussed before
[3:09pm] PeterThoeny: this should be optional
[3:09pm] PeterThoeny: you mentioned the fork
[3:09pm] PeterThoeny: not sure i agree that there is more momentum there
[3:09pm] HideyoImazu: ok
[3:10pm] PeterThoeny: possibly on dev yes, but not on user adoption and downloads
[3:10pm] PeterThoeny: we have twice as many downloads
[3:10pm] HideyoImazu: you know, praising a rival to some extent is a Japanese way
[3:10pm] PeterThoeny: yes
[3:11pm] PeterThoeny: one feedback: it might be good to show some screenshots or mockups of what can be done with variables
[3:11pm] PeterThoeny: e.g. screenshots of some twiki apps
[3:12pm] PeterThoeny: that makes it more concrete than simply showing variables before expansion
[3:12pm] PeterThoeny: for the upcoming release i want to push the twiki apps messaging
[3:13pm] HideyoImazu: ok
[3:13pm] PeterThoeny: imho twiki is used too much as a plain wiki in the majority of deployments, e.g they could use 
as well mediawiki or confluence
[3:14pm] HideyoImazu: to use twiki in the twiki way, you need some getting use to
[3:14pm] PeterThoeny: our sweetspot is the combination of unstructured wiki and structured wiki apps
[3:14pm] PeterThoeny: agree on programming
[3:14pm] PeterThoeny: but as a user you simply fill out forms and run reports
[3:15pm] PeterThoeny: with twiki app standard and app store it will be much easier to "sell" this part of twiki
[3:15pm] PeterThoeny: also to non-technical ysers
[3:15pm] PeterThoeny: "users"
[3:16pm] HideyoImazu: as far as I can see, twiki forms are not well-understood by my users
[3:16pm] PeterThoeny: you mean not well understood to create apps using twiki forms, or use twiki forms based apps?
[3:17pm] HideyoImazu: twiki forms themselves
[3:17pm] PeterThoeny: as a user or a app developer?
[3:18pm] HideyoImazu: both
[3:18pm] HideyoImazu: maybe a twiki forms wizard with which users can define a twiki form lower the bar
[3:18pm] PeterThoeny: yes that is a good idea
[3:19pm] PeterThoeny: as an initial step i think we should make it easier to install and use ready-made apps
[3:19pm] HideyoImazu: once a user suceeds to create their own form, and play around with it, they understand well
[3:19pm] PeterThoeny: such as shared contact lists, kb app, project tracker, etc
[3:20pm] PeterThoeny: yes, it takes time to grasp creating the first app
[3:20pm] PeterThoeny: when people ask me i point them to the how-to tutorial blog on twiki.org
[3:21pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Blog/BlogEntry201009x1
[3:21pm] PeterThoeny: maybe a tutorial should be part of the twiki distribution?
[3:21pm] PeterThoeny: what do you think?
[3:22pm] HideyoImazu: a tutorial should be in the distribution
[3:22pm] PeterThoeny: ok, to-do item for me!
[3:22pm] HideyoImazu: or at least reachable from the TWiki web
[3:23pm] PeterThoeny: just checked
[3:24pm] PeterThoeny: the twiki forms topic already links to the how-to blog
[3:24pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/TWiki06x00/TWikiForms
[3:24pm] PeterThoeny: see tip in overview section
[3:25pm] PeterThoeny: let's start with agenda
[3:25pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/KampalaReleaseMeeting2014x09x18
[3:25pm] PeterThoeny: 1. Feature Requests for Kampala Release
[3:25pm] PeterThoeny: 2. Extensions
[3:25pm] PeterThoeny: 3. Review Urgent and Not So Urgent Bugs
[3:25pm] PeterThoeny: 4. Miscellaneous
[3:25pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 1. Feature Requests for Kampala Release
[3:25pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiFeatureProposals
[3:26pm] PeterThoeny: no new ones to cover since last time
[3:26pm] PeterThoeny: any feature you'd like to discuss?
[3:26pm] HideyoImazu: no
[3:26pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 2. Extensions
[3:26pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/WebChanges
[3:27pm] PeterThoeny: AutoSectionsPlugin:
[3:27pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/AutoSectionsPluginDev
[3:27pm] PeterThoeny: dev page has a bug report
[3:27pm] PeterThoeny: i just debugged and fixed it
[3:27pm] PeterThoeny: there is an undocumented dependency on DATETIME
[3:27pm] PeterThoeny: i replaced it with CALCULATE
[3:28pm] PeterThoeny: which is pre-insatlled
[3:28pm] HideyoImazu: ah
[3:28pm] PeterThoeny: i listed this as a new item at http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki4/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/Item7550
[3:28pm] HideyoImazu: thank you so much for the fix
[3:28pm] PeterThoeny: and i just added a complete patch for the .js and .pm
[3:29pm] PeterThoeny: i recommend to review and incorporate the changes (if you agree)
[3:29pm] HideyoImazu: regarding the UI change, Mahiro is taking a look. He will make some improvement soon
[3:29pm] PeterThoeny: ok
[3:30pm] PeterThoeny: wysiwyg support based on user preference wouyld be cool
[3:30pm] PeterThoeny: but even without this i think we could add this to the standard twiki distro
[3:30pm] PeterThoeny: btw, today i installed the plugin with my changes on twiki.org twiki
[3:31pm] PeterThoeny: you can try it out
[3:31pm] HideyoImazu: ok
[3:31pm] PeterThoeny: do you want to create a feature proposal to add this as a new core plugin?
[3:31pm] HideyoImazu: sure
[3:31pm] HideyoImazu: I will write something up
[3:32pm] PeterThoeny: thanks
[3:32pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/ForEachPluginDev
[3:32pm] PeterThoeny: has a small fix proposed
[3:32pm] PeterThoeny: i'll incorporate that
[3:33pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/SmsTwoStepAuthContrib
[3:33pm] PeterThoeny: SMS Two-Step Authentication Contrib Package
[3:33pm] PeterThoeny: the first version is now released
[3:33pm] HideyoImazu: incidentally, how much do you use ForEachPlugin?
[3:33pm] PeterThoeny: not at all
[3:33pm] PeterThoeny: i usually use a CALCULATE loop
[3:34pm] HideyoImazu: ah. you do many things in CACLULATE
[3:34pm] HideyoImazu: it's like a swiss army knife
[3:34pm] PeterThoeny: yes, a lot
[3:35pm] PeterThoeny: especially with the has functions
[3:35pm] PeterThoeny: for example, i do a SEARCH, stick the topic names as an array into a spreadsheet var, and 
remember form fields as hashes
[3:35pm] HideyoImazu: incidentally, do you swiss use the term swiss army knife?
[3:36pm] PeterThoeny: then i use $LISTJOIN( … $LISTEACH( …, $LISTIF(…, $GET(topics)))) to create reports
[3:37pm] PeterThoeny: i have one in my pocket at all times 
[3:37pm] PeterThoeny: most useful tool: cork screw
[3:37pm] HideyoImazu: is that typical among people from switzerland?
[3:37pm] PeterThoeny: kind of
[3:38pm] PeterThoeny: in $LISTEACH I use for example $GETHASH(prjStatus, $item)
[3:39pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/JQueryPlugin
[3:40pm] PeterThoeny: yaojun made final fixes on css we discussed last time
[3:40pm] PeterThoeny: that;s if for extensions
[3:40pm] PeterThoeny: anything else?
[3:40pm] HideyoImazu: no
[3:40pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 3. Review Urgent and Not So Urgent Bugs
[3:40pm] PeterThoeny: http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki4/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/WebChanges
[3:41pm] PeterThoeny: Item7551: new WYSIWYG bug report
[3:41pm] PeterThoeny: not that urgent
[3:41pm] PeterThoeny: that's it
[3:41pm] PeterThoeny: anything?
[3:41pm] HideyoImazu: no
[3:41pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 4. Miscellaneous
[3:42pm] PeterThoeny: anything?
[3:42pm] HideyoImazu: are you on track with the next release?
[3:42pm] PeterThoeny: we soon approach one year
[3:42pm] PeterThoeny: i am behind with app packager
[3:42pm] PeterThoeny: right now prio is to pay my bills with payed consulting
[3:43pm] PeterThoeny: living in silicon valley is very expensive
[3:43pm] HideyoImazu: understood
[3:44pm] PeterThoeny: i think that's it from me on twiki meeting
[3:45pm] HideyoImazu: ok. thanks!
[3:45pm] PeterThoeny: last weekend my son and i went to shoot rockets in the black rock desert in nevada
[3:45pm] PeterThoeny: was a lot of fun!
[3:45pm] HideyoImazu: again?
[3:45pm] PeterThoeny: i shook hands with elon musk, ceo of tesla and spacex
[3:45pm] PeterThoeny: yes, second time for me
[3:45pm] PeterThoeny: at black rock desert
[3:46pm] PeterThoeny: this time we helped prep a big rocket
[3:46pm] HideyoImazu: i'm following elon on twitter
[3:46pm] HideyoImazu: a cool guy
[3:46pm] PeterThoeny: we could here the sonic boom
[3:46pm] HideyoImazu: wow
[3:46pm] PeterThoeny: in 3.5 sec from 0 to 1200 miles/hour
[3:47pm] HideyoImazu: that's wild
[3:47pm] PeterThoeny: actually, almost 1400 mph
[3:47pm] HideyoImazu: solid fuel?
[3:47pm] PeterThoeny: the rocket pulled 26 g
[3:48pm] PeterThoeny: which is way to fast acceleration for a human to survive
[3:48pm] HideyoImazu: very lethal to human
[3:48pm] PeterThoeny: yes, ammonium perchlorate based fuel
[3:49pm] PeterThoeny: same as in boosters of space shuttle
[3:49pm] PeterThoeny: https://www.facebook.com/peterthoeny/media_set?set=a.10152642307413950.1073741837.563198949
[3:50pm] HideyoImazu: great stuff
[3:51pm] PeterThoeny: yes, a lot of fun!
[3:51pm] PeterThoeny: i'll post more photos later
[3:51pm] PeterThoeny: these photos are just of sunday
[3:51pm] PeterThoeny: i'll post fri night and sat later
[3:52pm] HideyoImazu: incidentally, you seem to keep your Japanese comprehension well
[3:52pm] PeterThoeny: well, soso
[3:52pm] PeterThoeny: should mingle more with pretty japanese women
[3:52pm] HideyoImazu: maybe you have enough supply in the west coast
[3:53pm] PeterThoeny: 
[3:53pm] PeterThoeny: ok, i'll post the logs and update the minutes
[3:53pm] HideyoImazu: cool
[3:53pm] HideyoImazu: ttyl
[3:54pm] PeterThoeny: ttyl HideyoImazu-san!