Subject: KampalaMeetingLog2013x11x21.txt
Date: November 21, 2013 3:56:16 PM PST

[2:59pm]  SteveCooper joined the chat room.
[3:00pm] PeterThoeny: hi SteveCooper
[3:00pm] SteveCooper: Hello Peter.
[3:00pm] PeterThoeny: nice to e-meet you
[3:00pm] SteveCooper: Ha.  Likewise!
[3:01pm] PeterThoeny: the japanese team (morgan stanley) will not participate today due to another meeting
[3:01pm] SteveCooper: And where are the rest of the throngs?
[3:02pm] PeterThoeny: so what is allegro consultants?
[3:02pm] PeterThoeny: not sure, let's wait some more before we start the meeting
[3:02pm] SteveCooper: We are a small software firm, that offers OS Help Desk support for people with the 
following OSes: HP-UX, MPE, Linux, and Solaris.
[3:03pm] PeterThoeny: ah, unix shop
[3:03pm] SteveCooper: We use TWiki for our internal website and knowledge base.
[3:03pm] PeterThoeny: thanks for using twiki!
[3:03pm] SteveCooper: Thanks for inventing it!
[3:03pm] PeterThoeny: :-)
[3:03pm] PeterThoeny: i had a need for a knowledge base for support many years back
[3:04pm] PeterThoeny: in commercial kb products i missed the collaborative nature of wikis
[3:04pm] PeterThoeny: so i built twiki as a app platform on top of a wiki
[3:05pm] SteveCooper: My daughter is forming a museum in New Orleans, and I told her the first step in 
building a TWiki.  So, now are are a multi-generational TWiki family.
[3:05pm] PeterThoeny: do you use the app feature with twikiforms?
[3:05pm] PeterThoeny: nice!
[3:05pm] SteveCooper: I believe we do, but I have not done that personally.
[3:06pm] PeterThoeny: here is a blog post on how to create a twiki app:
[3:06pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Blog/BlogEntry201009x1
[3:06pm] PeterThoeny: i invite you to explore the possibilities at work
[3:06pm] PeterThoeny: i help out companies build tailored apps to streamline their operations
[3:07pm] SteveCooper: Thanks.  Will do.
[3:07pm] PeterThoeny: time check: +7min
[3:07pm] PeterThoeny: hmm, maybe nobody else today
[3:07pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/KampalaReleaseMeeting2013x11x21
[3:08pm] PeterThoeny: has the agenda
[3:08pm] PeterThoeny: 1. Feature Requests for Kampala Release
[3:08pm] PeterThoeny: 2. Extensions
[3:08pm] PeterThoeny: 3. Review Urgent and Not So Urgent Bugs
[3:08pm] PeterThoeny: 4. Miscellaneous
[3:08pm] PeterThoeny: since just two of us we might keep the meeting informal
[3:08pm] PeterThoeny: usually we cover agenda
[3:09pm] SteveCooper: Well, I'm a newbie, and was just hoping to lurk.
[3:10pm] SteveCooper: I know we have our own pet projects we hope will happen some day, but not sure we 
are all that typical.
[3:10pm] PeterThoeny: well, let's just do the first one, then do free form discussion
[3:11pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 1. Feature Requests for Kampala Release
[3:11pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiFeatureProposals
[3:11pm] PeterThoeny: one i posted just today: 
[3:11pm] PeterThoeny: Search With Sort by Multiple Fields
[3:11pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/SearchWithSortByMultipleFields
[3:12pm] PeterThoeny: for a client i have a need to sort a search result by multiple fields
[3:13pm] PeterThoeny: for example, sort by parent topic, then for each parent group, sort by a form 
field name
[3:14pm] SteveCooper: Makes sense to me.  Our TWiki is small enough that we probably don't have a need 
for that very often, but I can see it with larger TWiki's.
[3:14pm] SteveCooper: Sort packages normally allow for multiple keys, binary or ASCII, ascending or 
descending.  We should probably allow for all of that.
[3:15pm] PeterThoeny: this particular need is for a qa tracker application
[3:15pm] PeterThoeny: there are projects with test runs
[3:15pm] PeterThoeny: they want to have a report showing test runs sorted by project
[3:16pm] PeterThoeny: each test run is parented by its project
[3:16pm] PeterThoeny: so this feature takes care of this
[3:16pm] PeterThoeny: just before the meeting i got it to run on my test install
[3:17pm] PeterThoeny: yes, true
[3:17pm] PeterThoeny: search already has many switches
[3:17pm] SteveCooper: This seems like a logical, intuitive enhancement.
[3:17pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/TWiki/VarSEARCH
[3:18pm] PeterThoeny: yes, people who use excel expect the sort by multiple columns feature
[3:19pm] PeterThoeny: as for feature acceptance process,
[3:19pm] PeterThoeny: see http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiReleaseManagementProcess
[3:19pm] SteveCooper: The syntax may need some further work, though.  For instance: reverse="on".  We 
might want reverse on for one key and off for another.
[3:19pm] PeterThoeny: good point
[3:19pm] PeterThoeny: so maybe support reverse="on, off, on"
[3:19pm] PeterThoeny: using same sequence as sort="a, b, c"
[3:20pm] SteveCooper: What does just reverse="on" mean then?  Apply "on" to all keys?
[3:20pm] PeterThoeny: actually, this is a minor enhancement that can be done quickly
[3:21pm] PeterThoeny: let me add this to the current spec
[3:21pm] PeterThoeny: before with just one sort key reverse applied to that one
[3:21pm] SteveCooper: Also: casesensitive.
[3:21pm] PeterThoeny: now with multiple it applies to all
[3:22pm] PeterThoeny: i'll enhance the spec to allow comma list in reverse parameter
[3:22pm] PeterThoeny: casesensitive is different, it controls the search, not the sort
[3:23pm] PeterThoeny: that would require a new parameter, such as casesensitivesearch
[3:23pm] SteveCooper: Ah...I see.
[3:23pm] PeterThoeny: i won't do that unless there is a specific need
[3:24pm] PeterThoeny: thanks for the idea on specifying reverse per sort token!
[3:25pm] SteveCooper: I'm surprised that the sort doesn't allow for alternate collating sequences.  
English sorting does not work for most other languages.  But, that's a separate topic.
[3:25pm] SteveCooper: Your welcome.  I vote yes.
[3:26pm] PeterThoeny: thank you
[3:26pm] PeterThoeny: usually we vote at release meeting, but since we are just two today i'll way for 
7 days for feedback
[3:27pm] PeterThoeny: it's auto-accepted after 7 days if no concern raised
[3:27pm] SteveCooper: Understood.
[3:27pm] PeterThoeny: there are older feature proposals
[3:27pm] PeterThoeny: let's stop now with agenda items
[3:28pm] PeterThoeny: and carry on free form
[3:28pm] PeterThoeny: since when do you use twiki at allegro?
[3:28pm] PeterThoeny: allegro = happy 
[3:29pm] SteveCooper: We've actually been using it for many years now...I'm guessing maybe 10?
[3:29pm] PeterThoeny: ah, long time user
[3:29pm] SteveCooper: Yes, I think of Allegro in the musical sense: fast, yet artistic, with (hopefully) 
happy customers.
[3:29pm] PeterThoeny: allegro in italian means happy
[3:30pm] PeterThoeny: in music it has a different meaning
[3:30pm] PeterThoeny: did you chose the name?
[3:30pm] SteveCooper: Each time we update, we have to go through our list of customizations.  I hope to 
see as many of those customizations rolled into the base release as possible.
[3:31pm] SteveCooper: Yes, we are 30 years old this month, but my business partner and I chose the name 
30 years ago.
[3:32pm] PeterThoeny: wow, very long history!
[3:32pm] PeterThoeny: where are you located?
[3:32pm] SteveCooper: Today our offices are in Santa Clara, on Stevens Creek.  We started in Redwood 
City, and have also been located in Cupertino at one point.
[3:34pm] PeterThoeny: very close
[3:34pm] PeterThoeny: maybe we can have a coffee once?
[3:34pm] PeterThoeny: i have one client in cupertino, stevens creek / deanza
[3:35pm] SteveCooper: I would like that!  Perhaps with a bit of notice, Barry Lake, one of our people, 
could join us, too.  (He's travelling this week.)
[3:35pm] SteveCooper: You are in San Jose?
[3:36pm] PeterThoeny: technically yes, but it is close to cupertino
[3:36pm] SteveCooper: Excellent!
[3:36pm] PeterThoeny: shall we set up something for next week?
[3:37pm] PeterThoeny: either coffee in morning or lunch?
[3:37pm] SteveCooper: With the holiday, next week is a bit tough.  How about lunch on Monday, Wednesday, 
or Friday, the week of 2 Dec?
[3:38pm] PeterThoeny: that sounds good
[3:38pm] SteveCooper: Your choice.  And, feel free to suggest a location, too.
[3:38pm] PeterThoeny: lunch on monday?
[3:38pm] SteveCooper: Wonderful.  Monday, 12/2.
[3:39pm] PeterThoeny: flexible on location, just not too heavy american style meals
[3:39pm] PeterThoeny: let's coordinate by e-mail
[3:39pm] PeterThoeny: i marked my calendar for monday noon
[3:40pm] PeterThoeny: on 12-02
[3:40pm] SteveCooper: Wait...another option...we have a company meeting (all five of us) on Tuesday.  
Want to meet the whole bunch of us?
[3:40pm] PeterThoeny: thats an idea
[3:40pm] PeterThoeny: i'd love to meet you all
[3:41pm] SteveCooper: OK...let's say Tuesday, 12/3, Noon.  I'll suggest a few places via e-mail.
[3:41pm] PeterThoeny: ok
[3:41pm] PeterThoeny: btw, i just google for allegro
[3:41pm] PeterThoeny: there is a allegro.com (you guys) and a allegroconsultants.com
[3:41pm] PeterThoeny: any connection?
[3:42pm] SteveCooper: I know.  We tried to get them to change their names, but our lawyer said it will 
cost us over $100,000 to get them to do it.
[3:42pm] PeterThoeny: wow
[3:42pm] SteveCooper: There are a lot of Allegro's out there.  But the domain name is ours.  
[3:43pm] PeterThoeny: do you have a registered trademark on allegro consultants?
[3:43pm] SteveCooper: Check out: http://www.allegro.com/?page_id=156
[3:44pm] SteveCooper: We have it registered as a service mark, but that wasn't enough to get them to 
cease and desist.
[3:44pm] PeterThoeny: the same trademark can be sued without issue for different types of businesses, 
such as ice cream maker and furniture store
[3:45pm] PeterThoeny: but if in same field it means a trademark infringement
[3:45pm] SteveCooper: Yes.  Their name should never have been allowed, but enforcing that is not cheap.
[3:45pm] PeterThoeny: yea, lawyers are very pricey
[3:45pm] SteveCooper: Nice Freudian typo: "sued" instead of "used".
[3:46pm] PeterThoeny: haha, just noticed now
[3:46pm] PeterThoeny: time check: +46 min
[3:46pm] PeterThoeny: shall we close the meeting?
[3:47pm] SteveCooper: Anyway, it was a pleasure chatting with you.  I think we should close.  I will be 
in touch via e-mail.
[3:47pm] PeterThoeny: yes, looking forward for the december event!
[3:47pm] PeterThoeny: thanks for stopping by!
[3:47pm] PeterThoeny: i'll post the logs
[3:47pm] SteveCooper: My pleasure.
[3:47pm] PeterThoeny: ttyl steve!
[3:48pm] SteveCooper: Bye.
[3:50pm]  SteveCooper left the chat room.