Date: April 25, 2013 10:07:16 PM PDT
Subject: JerusalemMeetingLog2013x04x26.txt

[8:54pm]  HideyoImazu joined the chat room.
[9:00pm] PeterThoeny: hi HideyoImazu-san
[9:00pm] HideyoImazu: Hi Peter
[9:01pm] PeterThoeny: today i went to a talk at xerox parc
[9:02pm] PeterThoeny: topic: enterprise gamification
[9:02pm] PeterThoeny: interesting topic we could use for twiki
[9:02pm] PeterThoeny: http://enterprise-gamification.com/index.php/en/facts
[9:03pm] HideyoImazu: who owns the web site?
[9:03pm] PeterThoeny: http://enterprise-gamification.com/index.php/en/start
[9:04pm] PeterThoeny: an austrian called mario herger
[9:04pm] PeterThoeny: now it is a community
[9:05pm] PeterThoeny: http://enterprise-gamification.com/index.php/en/about
[9:05pm] PeterThoeny: gamification can be used to get more users to a twiki site, provided it is
done properly
[9:06pm] HideyoImazu: gamification has been a buzzword but I've never heard that term in the
enterprise context.
[9:07pm] PeterThoeny: looks promising to me
[9:07pm] PeterThoeny: i'll dig into it further
[9:07pm] PeterThoeny: i invited mario to our house bbq this sat
[9:08pm] PeterThoeny: i am eager to learn more
[9:08pm] HideyoImazu: sounds good
[9:10pm] PeterThoeny: time check: +10min
[9:10pm] HideyoImazu: [connectivity check...]
[9:11pm] PeterThoeny: shall we start?
[9:11pm] PeterThoeny: seems only two of us
[9:11pm] PeterThoeny: agenda at
http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/JerusalemReleaseMeeting2013x04x26
[9:12pm] PeterThoeny: 1. Feature Requests for Jerusalem Release
[9:12pm] PeterThoeny: 2. Review Urgent and Not So Urgent Bugs
[9:12pm] PeterThoeny: 3. Extensions
[9:12pm] PeterThoeny: 4. Miscellaneous
[9:12pm] PeterThoeny: ready?
[9:12pm] HideyoImazu: sure
[9:12pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 1. Feature Requests for Jerusalem Release
[9:12pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiFeatureProposals
[9:12pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TopicAccessContactPref
[9:12pm] PeterThoeny:  Feature Proposal: TOPIC_ACCESS_CONTACT preference variable
[9:13pm] PeterThoeny: already "accepted by 7 day feedback"
[9:13pm] HideyoImazu: it's already implemented
[9:13pm] PeterThoeny: looks good
[9:13pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/NotFoundAccessDeniedAsUsual
[9:13pm] PeterThoeny:  Feature Proposal: Topic Not Found, No Such Web, Access Denied as usual
[9:14pm] HideyoImazu: what do you think?
[9:15pm] PeterThoeny: needs some thinking
[9:15pm] PeterThoeny: a  "404 Not Found" is not good for non-existing topics for two reasons:
[9:16pm] PeterThoeny: 1. can't create a topic (e.g. not inviting to collaborate)
[9:17pm] HideyoImazu: I don't mean as such
[9:17pm] PeterThoeny: 2. can't do "narrow down search", e.g. enter part of topic name in jump box
to get list of topics that have that string in name
[9:17pm] HideyoImazu: basically the ways those results are shown are the same
[9:18pm] PeterThoeny: oic, "Status code change will be unnoticeable for human uesrs"
[9:18pm] HideyoImazu: correct
[9:18pm] HideyoImazu: and not redirected to oops
[9:18pm] HideyoImazu: with access denied and web not found
[9:19pm] PeterThoeny: look at this example:
[9:19pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/Blah?topic=ajax
[9:19pm] PeterThoeny: i typed ajax into the jump box
[9:20pm] PeterThoeny: as long as browser is not doing funky stuff on a 404 it should be ok
[9:20pm] HideyoImazu: That's what I meant.
[9:20pm] PeterThoeny: ok
[9:21pm] PeterThoeny: on non-existing web
[9:21pm] PeterThoeny: such as: twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/DoesNotExist/WebHome
[9:21pm] PeterThoeny: i like the idea of no redirect
[9:21pm] PeterThoeny: e.g. same url, but show error message in page content
[9:21pm] HideyoImazu: that's right
[9:22pm] HideyoImazu: I don't like to be redirected to oops when I made a type in a web name
[9:22pm] PeterThoeny: yes, good point
[9:22pm] PeterThoeny: now it ends up at
http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/oops/DoesNotExist/WebHome?template=oopsaccessdenied;def=no_such_web;param1=view;template=oopsaccessdenied;def=no_such_web;param1=view
[9:22pm] PeterThoeny: which is odd
[9:23pm] HideyoImazu: and "access denied" title is a bit weird.
[9:23pm] PeterThoeny: so you intend to show the same message and links as now in the page content?
[9:23pm] HideyoImazu: correct
[9:23pm] PeterThoeny: such as "You can create a new web if you have permission"
[9:24pm] PeterThoeny: yes, "access denied" is weird
[9:24pm] HideyoImazu: it will be somewhat like the page shown to a non-existing topic
[9:24pm] PeterThoeny: yes
[9:24pm] PeterThoeny: and similar with view access denied
[9:24pm] PeterThoeny: i like it
[9:25pm] PeterThoeny: while at it, what about change access denied?
[9:26pm] HideyoImazu: the proper status code will be beneficial for programs such as crawlers
[9:27pm] PeterThoeny: makes sense
[9:27pm] HideyoImazu: not redirecting to oops is nice to users
[9:27pm] HideyoImazu: if you are redirected oops, people who don't know about twiki are puzzled
[9:27pm] HideyoImazu: "where am I?" "what this oops url?"
[9:28pm] PeterThoeny: how about doing the same for "change access denied" ?
[9:28pm] PeterThoeny: i am all for usability improvements
[9:28pm] HideyoImazu: that's right
[9:29pm] HideyoImazu: I forgot about "change access denied"
[9:29pm] PeterThoeny: would make sense to do the same
[9:29pm] HideyoImazu: I'll add that to the proposal
[9:29pm] PeterThoeny: ok
[9:30pm] PeterThoeny: 19th + 7 = 26, e.g. tomorrow
[9:30pm] PeterThoeny: +1 from me
[9:31pm] HideyoImazu: +1
[9:31pm] HideyoImazu: thanks
[9:32pm] PeterThoeny: ok, accepted
[9:32pm] PeterThoeny: any other feature to discuss?
[9:33pm] HideyoImazu: no
[9:33pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 2. Review Urgent and Not So Urgent Bugs
[9:33pm] PeterThoeny: http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki4/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/ReleaseBlocker
[9:33pm] PeterThoeny: i don't have any urgent bugs
[9:33pm] HideyoImazu: I don't have either
[9:34pm] PeterThoeny: you fixed a number of issues in last 2 weeks
[9:34pm] PeterThoeny: thanks!
[9:34pm] HideyoImazu: you're welcome
[9:34pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 3. Extensions
[9:35pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/WebChanges
[9:35pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/PublishWebPlugin
[9:35pm] PeterThoeny: i did a number of enhancements in last 24 hours on publishwebplugin
[9:35pm] PeterThoeny: needed for a consulting engagement
[9:36pm] PeterThoeny: the plugin is getting better, allowing twiki to be used as a cms
[9:36pm] HideyoImazu: what are those enhancements in a nutshell?
[9:36pm] PeterThoeny:  TWikibug:Item7244: New {RequirePublishVariable} configure flag to require
STARTPUBLISH and/or STOPPUBLISH in topics that should be published; if flag is set, the publish
area of a publish topic is indicated by a green dotted line at the left page margin; exclude topic
from publishing if any of its ancestors (parents) is listed in the PUBLISHWEBPLUGIN_EXCLUDETOPIC
setting; after publishing show "TopicName" link label instead of "Web.TopicName"; hack fix to make
TreeBrowserPlugin work in "re-publish all" mode
[9:36pm] PeterThoeny: two main ones
[9:37pm] PeterThoeny: visual indication in view mode what is published and what is not
[9:38pm] HideyoImazu: is it to make static html files?
[9:38pm] PeterThoeny: exlude topic list is now aware of children tree, allowing one to specify just
one parent to exclude (such a library doc section that should be secret now, and public later)
[9:38pm] PeterThoeny: yes, static html files based on publish template
[9:39pm] PeterThoeny: see for example:
[9:39pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.wave.com/staging/developer/scramblswebapi.html
[9:39pm] PeterThoeny: this is staging area, not public yet
[9:39pm] PeterThoeny: publish skin needs some work
[9:39pm] PeterThoeny: idea is to maintain dev docs in TWiki by a team,
[9:39pm] HideyoImazu: the site looks very nice!
[9:40pm] PeterThoeny: on each topic save, the html version is generated, all linked automagically
[9:40pm] PeterThoeny: it is generated to stating area
[9:40pm] PeterThoeny: once set of doc work is done you press a button to push the docs from stating
to production
[9:41pm] PeterThoeny: you get all the benefits of twiki, e.g. apps and reprots
[9:41pm] PeterThoeny: "reports"
[9:41pm] HideyoImazu: there should be a good number of my users who are interested in it
[9:41pm] PeterThoeny: for example, the "server interface" table is generated dynamically with a
SEARCH
[9:42pm] PeterThoeny: i am now working on a doxygen integration
[9:43pm] PeterThoeny: e.g. push doxygen generated docs into the twiki publish web, after that it is
handled like other docs in terms of publishing
[9:43pm] HideyoImazu: what's doxygen?
[9:43pm] PeterThoeny: btw, scrambls is an interesting scrambling technology
[9:44pm] PeterThoeny: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doxygen - doxygen
[9:44pm] PeterThoeny: something similar to perl pod or javadoc
[9:45pm] PeterThoeny: https://scrambls.com/ - scrambls
[9:45pm] PeterThoeny: scrambls works also in twiki, facebook, twitter etc
[9:45pm] PeterThoeny: idea is to create a group
[9:46pm] PeterThoeny: then you post content as a user of that group
[9:46pm] PeterThoeny: all group members can read the text
[9:46pm] PeterThoeny: all other see just scrambled text
[9:46pm] PeterThoeny: interesting thing is that content resides in the original website
[9:47pm] HideyoImazu: de-scrambling happens on the browser?
[9:48pm] PeterThoeny: yes, scrambling and de-scrambling
[9:48pm] PeterThoeny: key is stored on scrambls.com site
[9:49pm] PeterThoeny: a number of other extensions have been updated in last 2 weeks
[9:49pm] PeterThoeny: anytone you want to cover?
[9:49pm] PeterThoeny: "anyone"
[9:49pm] HideyoImazu: no
[9:49pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 4. Miscellaneous
[9:49pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/MeetingTimeChange2013
[9:50pm] PeterThoeny: meeting time change
[9:50pm] PeterThoeny: we have 3 votes for option A
[9:50pm] PeterThoeny: non others
[9:50pm] PeterThoeny: so it looks pretty clear
[9:50pm] PeterThoeny: shall we say "decided" and use new meeting time next time?
[9:50pm] HideyoImazu: sure
[9:51pm] PeterThoeny: ok, decided
[9:52pm] PeterThoeny: ah, i see michael gulitz stated that he prefers C but is ok with A
[9:53pm] PeterThoeny: anything else?
[9:53pm] HideyoImazu: no
[9:54pm] PeterThoeny: ok, so let's close a bit early
[9:54pm] PeterThoeny: thanks HideyoImazu-san
[9:54pm] HideyoImazu: thanks Peter
[9:54pm] HideyoImazu: ttyl