Date: February 28, 2013 10:25:52 PM PST
Subject: JerusalemMeetingLog2013x03x01.txt

[8:57pm]  HideyoImazu joined the chat room.
[9:00pm] PeterThoeny: hi HideyoImazu-san
[9:00pm]  MahiroAndo joined the chat room.
[9:01pm] HideyoImazu: hi Peter
[9:01pm] MahiroAndo: hi everyone
[9:01pm] PeterThoeny: hi MahiroAndo-san
[9:01pm] PeterThoeny: still winter in tokyo?
[9:02pm] HideyoImazu: yes
[9:02pm] HideyoImazu: not so cold this week though
[9:03pm] PeterThoeny: we already have sakura in silicon valley
[9:03pm] PeterThoeny: beautiful trees
[9:03pm] HideyoImazu: we'll see sakura in about a month
[9:04pm] PeterThoeny: i have fond memories of sakura parties in city parks in nagoya
[9:04pm] HideyoImazu: were you staying in nagoya for long?
[9:05pm] PeterThoeny: 7ish years
[9:06pm] PeterThoeny: time check: +6 min
[9:06pm] PeterThoeny: shall we start?
[9:06pm] HideyoImazu: sure
[9:06pm] PeterThoeny: agenda at http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/JerusalemReleaseMeeting2013x03x01
[9:06pm] PeterThoeny: 1. Feature Requests for Jerusalem Release
[9:06pm] PeterThoeny: 2. Review Urgent and Not So Urgent Bugs
[9:06pm] PeterThoeny: 3. Extensions
[9:06pm] PeterThoeny: 4. Miscellaneous
[9:06pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 1. Feature Requests for Jerusalem Release
[9:06pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiFeatureProposals
[9:07pm] PeterThoeny: it looks like we have two recent ones
[9:07pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/LWPUserAgentFinerControl
[9:08pm] PeterThoeny:  Feature Proposal: LWP::UserAgent finer control - by Hideyo-san
[9:08pm] PeterThoeny: feature looks solid to me
[9:08pm] PeterThoeny: any feedback before we get a consensus on it?
[9:10pm] PeterThoeny: ?
[9:10pm] HideyoImazu: I need it to do %INCLUDE{"https://..."}% from inside firewall
[9:11pm] PeterThoeny: yes, makes sense
[9:11pm] PeterThoeny: let's get a handle on it
[9:12pm] HideyoImazu: +1
[9:12pm] MahiroAndo: +1
[9:12pm] PeterThoeny: +1
[9:12pm] PeterThoeny: so accepted by release meeting
[9:12pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/INCLUDENotToTouchScript
[9:13pm] PeterThoeny:  Feature Proposal: INCLUDE not to modify wiki words in the script tag -
by Hideyo-san
[9:13pm] PeterThoeny: i find this a no-brainer
[9:13pm] PeterThoeny: almost at the bug level
[9:14pm] HideyoImazu: I thought so too
[9:14pm] PeterThoeny: so +1 from me
[9:14pm] HideyoImazu: +1
[9:14pm] MahiroAndo: +1
[9:14pm] PeterThoeny: matter of judgement, in cases like these no need to submit a proposal, just
a bug item is ok
[9:15pm] PeterThoeny: also accepted by release meeting
[9:15pm] HideyoImazu: I understand
[9:15pm] PeterThoeny: these are the only two new ones
[9:15pm] PeterThoeny: any other item you'd like to discuss?
[9:16pm] HideyoImazu: what about TopLevelWebFormatForWebTags?
[9:16pm] MahiroAndo: minor one: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TopLevelWebFormatForWebTags
[9:16pm] PeterThoeny:  Feature Proposal: Add a variable $top to available variable format for
%WEB{...}%, %BASEWEB{...}%, etc. - by Mahiro-san
[9:17pm] PeterThoeny: please don't forget to add a DateOfCommitment
[9:17pm] PeterThoeny: it was not listed due to missing date
[9:17pm] MahiroAndo: yes, I will
[9:17pm] MahiroAndo: oh I see
[9:18pm] PeterThoeny: this feature looks good to me
[9:18pm] PeterThoeny: set the date back to the date when you posted the feature proposal
[9:18pm] PeterThoeny: let's get a handle
[9:19pm] PeterThoeny: +1 from me
[9:19pm] HideyoImazu: +1
[9:19pm] MahiroAndo: +1
[9:20pm] PeterThoeny: o, also accepted by release meeting
[9:20pm] PeterThoeny: s/o/ok/
[9:21pm] MahiroAndo: thanks
[9:21pm] PeterThoeny: any other proposal?
[9:21pm] HideyoImazu: not from me
[9:21pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 2. Review Urgent and Not So Urgent Bugs
[9:21pm] PeterThoeny: http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki4/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/ReleaseBlocker
[9:21pm] PeterThoeny: no urgent ones to discuss
[9:22pm] PeterThoeny: h: thanks for cleaning up the bug status on many topics
[9:22pm] HideyoImazu: sorry to have so many hanging there
[9:23pm] PeterThoeny: once we get close to a release we need to have bugs cleaned up
[9:23pm] PeterThoeny: any bug items to discuss?
[9:23pm] PeterThoeny: thanks YaojunFei for fixing the toc recursion bug
[9:24pm] PeterThoeny: i fixed a few in last two weeks
[9:24pm] PeterThoeny: just now i discovered a new one
[9:24pm] PeterThoeny: will file and fix (already fixed locally)
[9:25pm] PeterThoeny: anything else here?
[9:25pm] HideyoImazu: I fixed one bug Item&165
[9:25pm] HideyoImazu: Item7165
[9:26pm] PeterThoeny: http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki4/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/Item7165
[9:26pm] PeterThoeny:  Item7165: literal tags may be removed
[9:26pm] PeterThoeny: good catch!
[9:27pm] PeterThoeny: thanks
[9:27pm] PeterThoeny: any other?
[9:27pm] HideyoImazu: and Item7161
[9:27pm] HideyoImazu: it was a joint effort with Mahiro
[9:27pm] PeterThoeny: http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki4/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/Item7161
[9:28pm] PeterThoeny:  Item7161: InterwikiPlugin may work incorrectly under Fast CGI or mod_perl
[9:28pm] HideyoImazu: but he was on vacation, and I committed it.
[9:28pm] PeterThoeny: thanks mahiro
[9:28pm] MahiroAndo: you're welcome
[9:28pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 3. Extensions
[9:29pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/WebHome
[9:29pm] PeterThoeny: a number of enhancements and fixes
[9:29pm] PeterThoeny: in last 2 weeks
[9:29pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/TWikiGuestCacheAddOn
[9:30pm] PeterThoeny: now outputting proper content-type for rss pages
[9:30pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/BlackListPlugin
[9:30pm] PeterThoeny: i just enhanced it today
[9:30pm] PeterThoeny: we have a massive spam attack on twiki.org
[9:31pm] PeterThoeny: so i enhanced the plugin to fight against it
[9:31pm] PeterThoeny: kin of a cat and mouse game
[9:31pm] PeterThoeny: let's see how long they take to discover a workaround
[9:31pm] PeterThoeny: then i do a workaround of a workaround, then ...
[9:32pm] PeterThoeny: two hours ago i installed the updated plugin on twiki.org
[9:32pm] PeterThoeny: we already had 4 failed registration attempts by spammers
[9:33pm] HideyoImazu: cool!
[9:34pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/WatchlistPluginDev
[9:34pm] PeterThoeny: new watchlistplugin
[9:34pm] PeterThoeny: as you have seen, checkin lot's activity
[9:34pm] HideyoImazu: you've been quite active on it these days
[9:34pm] PeterThoeny: i make good progress
[9:35pm] PeterThoeny: basic watch functionality works now
[9:35pm] PeterThoeny: including ui in topmenuskin and base template
[9:35pm] PeterThoeny: ui is done conditionally, so safe to checkin by default
[9:36pm] PeterThoeny: besides testing, one big feature is pending: notification (immediate and
digest)
[9:37pm] PeterThoeny: on feature, please read my latest comment on the dev topic
[9:37pm] PeterThoeny: this is an idea for enhancement: per topic control of notification
[9:37pm] PeterThoeny: do you think this is needed? or overkill?
[9:39pm] HideyoImazu: might be an overkill
[9:40pm] PeterThoeny: yea, i keep this on backburner
[9:40pm] PeterThoeny: any other extensions to discuss?
[9:40pm] HideyoImazu: I suppose a user would want to get real-time notification on some or all
topics
[9:40pm] HideyoImazu: or would want to get a digest
[9:40pm] HideyoImazu: of all topics he cares
[9:41pm] HideyoImazu: not from me
[9:42pm] PeterThoeny: you mean a way to subscribe to all topics in a web, including new ones that
will be created?
[9:42pm] HideyoImazu: not quite
[9:42pm] HideyoImazu: that can be taken care of by MailerContrib
[9:42pm] PeterThoeny: yes
[9:43pm] HideyoImazu: my point is that in reality people want real-time notification for all topics
he cares or want get digest for all of them
[9:43pm] PeterThoeny: so what do you mean by "I suppose a user would want to get real-time
notification on some or all topics" ?
[9:43pm] HideyoImazu: not somewhere in between
[9:44pm] HideyoImazu: I retract "or all"
[9:44pm] PeterThoeny: ok
[9:45pm] PeterThoeny: so is there a case where a user wants digest for all watched ones, and
immediate for a few ones?
[9:45pm] HideyoImazu: that should be rare
[9:45pm] HideyoImazu: that's conceivable
[9:45pm] PeterThoeny: i wait for an actual request
[9:46pm] PeterThoeny: what should the default for notification be?
[9:46pm] HideyoImazu: so we should care about that rare case after it's released and used
[9:46pm] PeterThoeny: none? digest?
[9:46pm] PeterThoeny: i tend digest
[9:46pm] HideyoImazu: it depends on users
[9:47pm] HideyoImazu: novices should prefer real-time
[9:47pm] HideyoImazu: because they don't have a lot of topics to watch
[9:47pm] PeterThoeny: i think real-time is way to noisy
[9:47pm] HideyoImazu: and you can see it's working instantly
[9:47pm] PeterThoeny: i don't think immediate should be default
[9:47pm] HideyoImazu: and soon they realize real-time notification is too noisy
[9:47pm] HideyoImazu: and switch to digest
[9:48pm] PeterThoeny: ah i see your point
[9:49pm] PeterThoeny: i'll consider
[9:49pm] PeterThoeny: any other extension to discuss?
[9:50pm] HideyoImazu: not from me
[9:50pm] PeterThoeny: ah, back on watchlist
[9:50pm] PeterThoeny: in your env with mirroring it is not possible to save topics in main web
[9:51pm] PeterThoeny: any idea on how to enhance that so that you can use the watch feature?
[9:51pm] PeterThoeny: i first considered the working dir, but same issue with mirroring
[9:51pm] HideyoImazu: it is possible to save topics in main web in our environment
[9:52pm] PeterThoeny: oic, so main web is local and not mirrored?
[9:52pm] HideyoImazu: why do you think it's not possible?
[9:52pm] HideyoImazu: all but a few webs (TWiki, Sandbox, Trash) are mirrored
[9:53pm] PeterThoeny: ok, then no problem
[9:54pm] PeterThoeny: but then the watchlistplugin will not be able to catch a rename done on a
remote site?
[9:54pm] HideyoImazu: each web has the master site
[9:55pm] HideyoImazu: a web is updated only on the master site
[9:55pm] PeterThoeny: let's assume you are on site b
[9:55pm] HideyoImazu: the Edit and Attach button on the mirror site are pointing to the master site
[9:55pm] PeterThoeny: master of web x is on site a
[9:56pm] PeterThoeny: if a user on site a renames a topic in the web x
[9:56pm] PeterThoeny: the renamed topic gets mirrored to site b
[9:56pm] PeterThoeny: user on site b might have watched that topic
[9:56pm] HideyoImazu: on site b, web x is read only hence you cannot rename
[9:57pm] PeterThoeny: yes, but on a it can
[9:57pm] PeterThoeny: so if a user on b watches a topic in web x
[9:57pm] PeterThoeny: and that topic is renamed, that rename callback does not reach twiki in site b
[9:57pm] PeterThoeny: hence the watch will be outdated after the sync
[9:58pm] PeterThoeny: does that make sense?
[9:59pm]  HideyoImazu_ joined the chat room.
[9:59pm] PeterThoeny: HideyoImazu_:  what was the last you saw?
[9:59pm] HideyoImazu_: sorry. I lost my connection and back
[10:00pm] HideyoImazu_: I said "that's not an issue"
[10:00pm] HideyoImazu_: and then I lost the connection
[10:00pm] PeterThoeny: i don't see that
[10:00pm] HideyoImazu_: all users are (sort of) registered on all sites
[10:00pm] PeterThoeny: what's the last you saw from me?
[10:00pm]  HideyoImazu left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[10:01pm] PeterThoeny: time check: +61 min
[10:01pm] HideyoImazu_: that's gone on my browser
[10:02pm] PeterThoeny: PeterThoeny:  so if a user on b watches a topic in web x
[10:02pm] PeterThoeny: > PeterThoeny:  and that topic is renamed, that rename callback does not
reach twiki in site b
[10:02pm] PeterThoeny: > PeterThoeny:  hence the watch will be outdated after the sync
[10:02pm] HideyoImazu_: not quite
[10:03pm] HideyoImazu_: the user of site B is also a registered user on site A
[10:03pm] HideyoImazu_: so the user gets notified
[10:04pm] HideyoImazu_: the watch feature would be suppressed on read-only mirror webs
[10:04pm] PeterThoeny: so --- the watch info should be stored on per site?
[10:04pm] HideyoImazu_: per web
[10:04pm] PeterThoeny: ah, yes, that could be a limitation by design
[10:05pm] PeterThoeny: i think that needs some design work then
[10:05pm] PeterThoeny: this is all i have on extensions
[10:05pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 4. Miscellaneous
[10:05pm] PeterThoeny: anything?
[10:06pm] HideyoImazu_: not from me
[10:07pm] HideyoImazu_: ah
[10:07pm] HideyoImazu_: one thing
[10:07pm] HideyoImazu_: we're about to roll out TWiki 5.1 based build soon
[10:07pm] HideyoImazu_: we've been using 4.1.2 based built for so long
[10:08pm] PeterThoeny: you mean roll out 5.1 branch or trunk?
[10:08pm] HideyoImazu_: trunk
[10:08pm] PeterThoeny: it looks relatively stable
[10:08pm] PeterThoeny: runs in develop.twiki.org
[10:09pm] HideyoImazu_: after it's rolled out, we will migrate existing webs to the new TWiki
[10:09pm] PeterThoeny: anything you need finished before rollout?
[10:09pm] HideyoImazu_: not really
[10:09pm] HideyoImazu_: hopefully in a few months, all existing webs on TWiki 4.1.2 are migrated
and we will decommission the old one.
[10:09pm] PeterThoeny: you could install the new twiki and point to the old data
[10:10pm] PeterThoeny: i have done that for transition/test period
[10:10pm] HideyoImazu_: that's part of the plan
[10:10pm] PeterThoeny:
[10:11pm] HideyoImazu_: after that, I wash my hands from my local tweaks to the TWiki core.
[10:13pm] PeterThoeny: nice!
[10:13pm] PeterThoeny: shall we close the meeting?
[10:13pm] HideyoImazu_: sure
[10:13pm] PeterThoeny: thanks all!
[10:13pm] PeterThoeny: i'll post the logs
[10:13pm] MahiroAndo: cool. thanks!
[10:13pm] HideyoImazu_: ttyl
[10:13pm] MahiroAndo: ttyl
[10:14pm]  MahiroAndo left the chat room.
[10:14pm]  HideyoImazu_ left the chat room. (Quit: Page closed)