Date: December 20, 2012 11:22:07 PM PST
Subject: JerusalemMeetingLog2012x12x21.txt

[8:51pm]  HideyoImazu joined the chat room.
[8:55pm]  YaojunFei joined the chat room.
[8:56pm] YaojunFei: Hi, Peter.
[8:56pm] YaojunFei: Hi, Imazu San.
[9:00pm] PeterThoeny: hi HideyoImazu-san, YaojunFei, tomc20922!
[9:00pm] YaojunFei: Hi,Peter. How are you.
[9:01pm] HideyoImazu: hi all
[9:01pm] PeterThoeny: did you guys patch your twiki in regards to
http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/SecurityAlert-CVE-2012-6329 ?
[9:02pm] HideyoImazu: yes
[9:03pm] HideyoImazu: as of this monday, the patched version went into production.
[9:04pm] PeterThoeny: yes, george is away with boy scouts in a camp
[9:05pm] PeterThoeny: so i created the patch release
[9:05pm] PeterThoeny: a lot of work, so i appreciate george's work as a release manager
[9:06pm] PeterThoeny: i discovered an issue after the build: editing the pref settings was
possible even if you had no permission (although save was not possible)
[9:06pm] PeterThoeny: then i discovered that you HideyoImazu-san fixed that already in trunk
[9:06pm] PeterThoeny: so i synched the PreferencesPlugin to the 5.1 branch,
[9:07pm] PeterThoeny: and rebuild the 5.1.3 release
[9:07pm] PeterThoeny: besides this, build was going as planned
[9:08pm] PeterThoeny: i also fixed some unit test bugs
[9:08pm] HideyoImazu: cool
[9:08pm] PeterThoeny: there are still some left
[9:08pm] PeterThoeny: and tagging the release is pending too
[9:10pm] PeterThoeny: time check: +10 min
[9:10pm] PeterThoeny: i guess we start
[9:10pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/JerusalemReleaseMeeting2012x12x21
[9:10pm] PeterThoeny: proposed agenda:
[9:10pm] PeterThoeny: 1. Feature Requests for Jerusalem Release
[9:10pm] PeterThoeny: 2. Review Urgent and Not So Urgent Bugs
[9:10pm] PeterThoeny: 3. Extensions
[9:10pm] PeterThoeny: 4. Miscellaneous
[9:10pm] PeterThoeny: that's it? anything else?
[9:11pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 1. Feature Requests for Jerusalem Release
[9:11pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiFeatureProposals
[9:11pm] PeterThoeny: any feature you would like to cover?
[9:12pm] HideyoImazu: RenameTopicWithNoWebPrefix
[9:12pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/RenameTopicWithNoWebPrefix
[9:12pm] HideyoImazu: it's already accepted but there is an issue I'd like to raise with a detail.
[9:13pm] PeterThoeny: ah, yes you last comment
[9:13pm] HideyoImazu: as I commented recently, I realized that %INCLUDE{..}% has disablefixlinks
parameter
[9:13pm] PeterThoeny: makes sense to align setting name with existing parameter name
[9:14pm] PeterThoeny: any other point on this proposal?
[9:14pm] HideyoImazu: WeblistCanmovetoCancopyto
[9:14pm] HideyoImazu: this has been just posted so you guy may need some time to think through.
[9:15pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/WeblistCanmovetoCancopyto
[9:15pm] HideyoImazu: while I was implementing CopyScript, this occurred to me.
[9:15pm] PeterThoeny: why is there a distinction between copy and move?
[9:16pm] HideyoImazu: you cannot move to a web residing on a different disk from the current web
[9:16pm] HideyoImazu: because you cannot move the attachment directory of the topic to a different
disk
[9:17pm] PeterThoeny: i am coming back to what i mentioned before: the multiple disk spec raises
the complexity quote a lot
[9:17pm] HideyoImazu: while you can copy a topic to a web residing on a different disk from the
current web
[9:17pm] HideyoImazu: i agree
[9:18pm] PeterThoeny: we would not have a need for many of these enhancements if a file system that
has a large space is used
[9:18pm] HideyoImazu: that's right
[9:19pm] HideyoImazu: there is one bright side of UsingMultipleDisks though
[9:19pm] PeterThoeny: such as xfs file system by redhat
[9:19pm] PeterThoeny: http://www.redhat.com/products/enterprise-linux-add-ons/file-systems/
[9:20pm] HideyoImazu: when you migrate from one version of TWiki to another while running both,
which we are going to do,
[9:20pm] PeterThoeny: 100TB should be enough
[9:20pm] HideyoImazu: multiple disk support feature is handy
[9:21pm] HideyoImazu: 100TB should be enough indeed.
[9:21pm] HideyoImazu: we are forced to use network attached storage, whose maximum size per file
system is 500G right now.
[9:21pm] PeterThoeny: i am not against these features because they are out of the way if not
needed, just concerned about long term maintenance of these features
[9:22pm] PeterThoeny: wow, that's small
[9:22pm] HideyoImazu: as long as Morgan Stanley is using TWiki, those feature are kept alive.
[9:22pm] PeterThoeny: smaller than regular disks nowadays
[9:23pm] HideyoImazu: yes, it is.
[9:23pm] HideyoImazu: it's rather anachronistic to have such a small limitation.
[9:24pm] HideyoImazu: one big factor is tape backup
[9:24pm] HideyoImazu: backup technology we use is not par with disk capacity of these days.
[9:24pm] PeterThoeny: back to mv vs cp, you could have just one facing admins, and handle the
difference internally
[9:25pm] PeterThoeny: e.g. try to mv an attachment directory, and if it fails try a recursive copy,
and if that fails show an error
[9:27pm] PeterThoeny: when designing a system i try to create an api and ui as simple as possible,
e.g. at the cost of more programming if needed
[9:27pm] HideyoImazu: understood.
[9:28pm] HideyoImazu: there are topics having quite a few attachments.
[9:28pm] PeterThoeny: i recommend we keep this feature for feedback
[9:28pm] HideyoImazu: sure
[9:28pm] PeterThoeny: other features?
[9:30pm] PeterThoeny: i have:
[9:30pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/RemoveClassicSkinDFromCoreTWiki
[9:30pm] PeterThoeny:  Feature Proposal: Remove ClassicSkin from core TWiki - by pth
[9:30pm] PeterThoeny: i don't see a reason to keep this skin
[9:31pm] PeterThoeny: nobody is using it, and nobody is maintaining it
[9:31pm] PeterThoeny: i recommend to remove
[9:31pm] PeterThoeny: proposed 4 days ago
[9:31pm] PeterThoeny: i can wait for 7 days
[9:31pm] PeterThoeny: or we can get a handle here if to accept or not
[9:32pm] HideyoImazu: why the topic name has "SkinD" instead of "Skin"?
[9:32pm] HideyoImazu: just a typo, right?
[9:32pm] PeterThoeny: oh, typo!
[9:32pm] PeterThoeny: i'll fix after neeting
[9:32pm] PeterThoeny: "after meeting"
[9:32pm] PeterThoeny: who is for removing it (+1), keeping it (-1), abstain (0)
[9:33pm] HideyoImazu: +1
[9:33pm] PeterThoeny: tomc20922, YaojunFei ?
[9:33pm] YaojunFei: +1
[9:34pm] PeterThoeny: +1
[9:35pm] tomc20922: re; vote. sorry.  I'm just lurking...
[9:35pm] PeterThoeny: tomc20922:  so abstain. or?
[9:36pm] tomc20922: Ok. I vote +1
[9:36pm] PeterThoeny: ok, looks like accepted
[9:36pm] PeterThoeny: next:
[9:36pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/AddMovedSkinToCore
[9:36pm] PeterThoeny:  Feature Proposal: Add MovedSkin to Core TWiki Distribution - by PTh
[9:37pm] PeterThoeny: skin already exists as of a few days ago
[9:37pm]  YaojunFei left the chat room. (Remote host closed the connection)
[9:37pm] PeterThoeny: i needed it to move a twiki for a client
[9:37pm]  YaojunFei joined the chat room.
[9:37pm] PeterThoeny: technically accepted after 7 day feedback period
[9:37pm] HideyoImazu: it passed the 7 day comment period already
[9:37pm] PeterThoeny: any feedback?
[9:38pm] HideyoImazu: I'm for it.
[9:38pm] PeterThoeny: ok, next if no other feedback:
[9:38pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/AutomaticallyLinkAtTwitterIDs
[9:38pm] PeterThoeny:  Feature Proposal: Automatically Link @Twitter IDs - by PTh
[9:38pm] PeterThoeny: also passed 7 days, so accepted
[9:39pm] PeterThoeny: i implemented locally, with configure flag to define another target (such as
Yammer), or to disable auto-linking
[9:39pm] PeterThoeny: any feedback
[9:39pm] PeterThoeny: ?
[9:39pm] HideyoImazu: sounds reasonable
[9:40pm] PeterThoeny: that is all i had for features
[9:40pm] PeterThoeny: any othe feature you'd like to cover?
[9:41pm] PeterThoeny: time check: +41 min
[9:41pm] PeterThoeny: if not, next:
[9:41pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 2. Review Urgent and Not So Urgent Bugs
[9:41pm] PeterThoeny: i have nothing to discuss here
[9:41pm] PeterThoeny: just one comment: if you find time please look into fixing unit tests
[9:42pm] PeterThoeny: to raise the quality, and to make the work of the release manager easier
[9:42pm] PeterThoeny: anything on bus?
[9:42pm] PeterThoeny: "bugs"
[9:43pm] HideyoImazu: this seems suitable for a hackerthon kind of events - fixing unit tests
[9:43pm] PeterThoeny: local hackathon or virtual one?
[9:44pm] HideyoImazu: gathering at one physical location and work on them
[9:44pm] PeterThoeny: i like the idea
[9:44pm] PeterThoeny: however we are kind of small
[9:44pm] PeterThoeny: for physical hackathon
[9:44pm] HideyoImazu: virtual might be fun enough too
[9:44pm] PeterThoeny: yea, that might work
[9:45pm] HideyoImazu: if we keep google hangout or something open
[9:45pm] PeterThoeny: we could have a virtual hackathon on a saturday for a few hours
[9:45pm] PeterThoeny: and interact on skype or irc
[9:45pm] PeterThoeny: or google hangout, yes
[9:45pm] HideyoImazu: yes
[9:45pm] PeterThoeny: do you want to drive this hideyo-san?
[9:46pm] HideyoImazu: local should be more fun
[9:46pm] PeterThoeny: pay us a trip to tokyo, i'd love to visit
[9:47pm] HideyoImazu: same here
[9:47pm] HideyoImazu: if somebody fund me to visit Silicon Valley
[9:47pm] PeterThoeny: that would be nice too
[9:47pm] PeterThoeny: ok, next one:
[9:47pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 3. Extensions
[9:47pm] PeterThoeny: TWikiGuestCacheAddOn
[9:48pm] HideyoImazu: in any case, we all know fixing unit tests is important
[9:48pm] HideyoImazu: but it needs some momentum to do it
[9:48pm] PeterThoeny: (not yet posted)
[9:48pm] PeterThoeny: did you see better performance of twiki.org in last 2 days?
[9:49pm] PeterThoeny: i created a cache solution for twiki.org
[9:49pm] PeterThoeny: which i intend to open source as TWikiGuestCacheAddOn
[9:49pm] PeterThoeny: i have seen that most of the load is from spiders and from guest users
browsing around
[9:49pm] PeterThoeny: which is may be 90% of the traffic
[9:50pm] PeterThoeny: i now cache pages that have no url parameters, but only for guest users
[9:50pm] HideyoImazu: it looks faster
[9:50pm] PeterThoeny: before this, server load was in average may be 2-3, peaking daily up to 50
[9:51pm] PeterThoeny: now the server load is usually 0.5, and sometimes peaking up to 1.5
[9:51pm] HideyoImazu: that's great
[9:51pm] PeterThoeny: good, so you noticed it
[9:51pm] PeterThoeny: i'll do some more testing and code improvement
[9:51pm] PeterThoeny: then i release it
[9:52pm] HideyoImazu: how pages are cached? I'm just curious
[9:52pm] PeterThoeny: simple:
[9:52pm] PeterThoeny: i cache pages nder pub/.cache/Web/TopicName.html using wget
[9:53pm] PeterThoeny: i replace view script with new view script
[9:53pm] PeterThoeny: also perl
[9:53pm] PeterThoeny: it checks if not authenticated user, if no url param
[9:53pm] PeterThoeny: if so ,it checks timestamp of cached file
[9:54pm] PeterThoeny: if exists and not too old, it delivers that, else it first updates/creates it
[9:54pm] PeterThoeny: i have configure settings to set the cache age for default
[9:55pm] PeterThoeny: and have have tier 1 and tier 2 topics with different cache timeout
[9:55pm] PeterThoeny: for example, WebRss should timeout in 1 hour
[9:55pm] PeterThoeny: that is tier 2
[9:55pm] PeterThoeny: tier 1 times out in 6 hours, like WebHome
[9:56pm] PeterThoeny: default times out in 2 days or a week
[9:56pm] HideyoImazu: understood
[9:56pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/DatePickerPlugin
[9:56pm] PeterThoeny:  Pop-up calendar with date picker, for use in TWiki forms, HTML forms and
TWiki plugins - by PTh
[9:57pm] PeterThoeny: you had a question HideyoImazu-san
[9:57pm] PeterThoeny: all clear now?
[9:57pm] HideyoImazu: still, my dev server's calendar pop up looks like JSCalendarAddOn's
[9:58pm] PeterThoeny: did you update both extensions to the latest version?
[9:58pm] PeterThoeny: may be css cache in browser?
[9:58pm] PeterThoeny: did you try shift-reload?
[9:59pm] PeterThoeny: is that an "svn up" or a extension install you use?
[10:00pm] HideyoImazu: shift-reload didn't make a difference. and "svn up" either.
[10:00pm] PeterThoeny: strange
[10:00pm] HideyoImazu: I'll dig into it more.
[10:01pm] PeterThoeny: did you do a pseudo install of both?
[10:02pm] PeterThoeny: any other extension to cover?
[10:02pm] PeterThoeny: this is all i had
[10:02pm] PeterThoeny: time check: +62 min
[10:03pm] PeterThoeny: if not, next:
[10:03pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 4. Miscellaneous
[10:03pm] PeterThoeny: anything?
[10:03pm]  HideyoImazu_ joined the chat room.
[10:04pm] HideyoImazu_: my connection was lost and now i'm back
[10:04pm] PeterThoeny: ah, what was last you saw?
[10:04pm] HideyoImazu_: is there a place I can see DatePickerPlugin working?
[10:04pm] HideyoImazu_: develop.twiki.org/twiki4/cgi-bin/view/TWiki/DatePickerPlugin has it's
disabled
[10:05pm]  HideyoImazu left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[10:06pm] PeterThoeny: hmm, that should be enabled
[10:06pm] PeterThoeny: let me check offline
[10:06pm] HideyoImazu_: ?
[10:06pm] PeterThoeny: develop.twiki.org updates itself based on manifest
[10:07pm] PeterThoeny: ah, it is installed
[10:07pm] PeterThoeny: but i need to manually enable
[10:08pm] PeterThoeny: i'll do that soon
[10:08pm] PeterThoeny: any other items to discuss?
[10:10pm] PeterThoeny: i enabled
http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki4/cgi-bin/view/TWiki/DatePickerPlugin
[10:10pm] PeterThoeny: and indeed it has the old look
[10:10pm] PeterThoeny: i'll investigate
[10:10pm] PeterThoeny: time check: +70 min
[10:10pm] HideyoImazu_: ok
[10:10pm] PeterThoeny: shall we close the meeting?
[10:10pm] HideyoImazu_: yes
[10:11pm] PeterThoeny: ok, thanks all!
[10:11pm] PeterThoeny: i'll post the logs and minutes
[10:12pm] HideyoImazu_: are we going to have a marketing meeting next week?
[10:12pm] YaojunFei: Thanks, have a good day, bye.
[10:12pm] PeterThoeny: yes
[10:12pm] PeterThoeny: actually, no
[10:12pm] PeterThoeny: because of winter break
[10:13pm] PeterThoeny: so next meeting is release meeting in 2 weeks
[10:13pm] PeterThoeny: beginning of jan
[10:13pm] HideyoImazu_: I cannot make Jan 4th release meeting.
[10:13pm]  YaojunFei left the chat room. (Remote host closed the connection)
[10:14pm] HideyoImazu_: so see you in three weeks!
[10:16pm] PeterThoeny: ok
[10:16pm] PeterThoeny: ttyl
[10:18pm]  HideyoImazu_ left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)