Date: October 25, 2012 10:17:06 PM PDT
Subject: JerusalemMeetingLog2012x10x26.txt

[8:51pm]  YaojunFei joined the chat room.
[9:00pm] PeterThoeny: hi YaojunFei!
[9:00pm] PeterThoeny: what's new in shanghai?
[9:01pm] YaojunFei: Hi, Peter
[9:01pm] YaojunFei: Things are fine here. How things going with you?
[9:02pm] YaojunFei: Shanghai is in autum, weather is pretty fine these days.
[9:02pm] YaojunFei: I'm preapring an outing on this weekend
[9:03pm] PeterThoeny: how far do you have to go to find nature?
[9:03pm] YaojunFei: The only thing new here is bad news. If you check out the international
news in Asia, you'll see that;-p
[9:03pm]  GeorgeTrubisky joined the chat room.
[9:03pm] PeterThoeny: hi george!
[9:03pm] GeorgeTrubisky: hi peter
[9:04pm] YaojunFei: Hi george, this is Fei.
[9:04pm]  HideyoImazu joined the chat room.
[9:04pm] GeorgeTrubisky: Hi Fei!
[9:04pm] HideyoImazu: hi all
[9:05pm] YaojunFei: Hi, Imazu san.
[9:05pm] PeterThoeny: hi HideyoImazu-san
[9:06pm] GeorgeTrubisky: hi Imazu san
[9:07pm] HideyoImazu: hi, Yaojun, Peter, and George
[9:07pm] PeterThoeny: i just looked at the checkin stats
[9:07pm] PeterThoeny: month to date we have 323 checkins
[9:08pm] PeterThoeny: this could be an all time high
[9:08pm] PeterThoeny: see stats at
[9:08pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiOrgStatistics
[9:09pm] PeterThoeny: not an all time high, but the highest in the last few years
[9:09pm] HideyoImazu: we're in an upward trend
[9:09pm] PeterThoeny: this year we had in average 100 checkins a month
[9:10pm] PeterThoeny: yes, good trend
[9:10pm] PeterThoeny: last month 239
[9:10pm] PeterThoeny: shall we start?
[9:10pm] GeorgeTrubisky: yes
[9:10pm] HideyoImazu: sure
[9:10pm] PeterThoeny: agenda at
[9:10pm] YaojunFei: please
[9:10pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/JerusalemReleaseMeeting2012x10x26
[9:11pm] PeterThoeny: 1. Feature Requests for Jerusalem Release
[9:11pm] PeterThoeny: 2. Review Urgent and Not So Urgent Bugs
[9:11pm] PeterThoeny: 3. Extensions
[9:11pm] PeterThoeny: 4. Miscellaneous
[9:11pm] PeterThoeny: any other item?
[9:11pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 1. Feature Requests for Jerusalem Release
[9:11pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiFeatureProposals
[9:12pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/AddLWPParametersToGetExternalResource
[9:12pm] PeterThoeny: Add LWP parameters to TWiki: :Func::getExternalResource
[9:12pm] PeterThoeny: by MahiroAndo
[9:12pm] PeterThoeny: mahiro and i had some discussion to refine the spec
[9:12pm] PeterThoeny: it is now solid
[9:12pm] PeterThoeny: i feel good about it
[9:12pm] PeterThoeny: it look like he implemented already
[9:12pm]  MahiroAndo joined the chat room.
[9:13pm] PeterThoeny: hi MahiroAndo-san: speaking of the devil and he appears
[9:13pm] MahiroAndo: hi Peter. sorry I'm late
[9:13pm] PeterThoeny: > Add LWP parameters to TWiki: :Func::getExternalResource
[9:13pm] PeterThoeny: > by MahiroAndo
[9:13pm] PeterThoeny: > mahiro and i had some discussion to refine the spec
[9:14pm] PeterThoeny: > it is now solid
[9:14pm] PeterThoeny: > it look like he implemented already
[9:14pm] PeterThoeny: is the feature implemented already?
[9:14pm] MahiroAndo: I like the way it has refined. many thanks for your suggestions!
[9:14pm] MahiroAndo: yes
[9:14pm] PeterThoeny: nice
[9:14pm] PeterThoeny: i think the old lwp function is still there
[9:15pm] PeterThoeny: should't that be removed?
[9:15pm] MahiroAndo: oh I thought I did. if not I will remove it
[9:15pm] PeterThoeny: or may be i did not update
[9:16pm] PeterThoeny: yep, culpa mia
[9:16pm] PeterThoeny: gone after svn up
[9:16pm] MahiroAndo: ok
[9:16pm] PeterThoeny: please toggle the feature to consensus reached
[9:16pm] PeterThoeny: and change status to merged to core
[9:17pm] PeterThoeny: i'll update the SSO contrib to use the updated API
[9:17pm] MahiroAndo: sure
[9:17pm] PeterThoeny: next:
[9:17pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/RegisterExternalHTTPHandler
[9:17pm] MahiroAndo: and thank you for adjusting SSO Contrib
[9:17pm] PeterThoeny: TWiki: :Func::registerExternalHTTPHandler
[9:18pm] PeterThoeny: also by mahiro-san
[9:18pm] PeterThoeny: proposal looks good to me
[9:18pm] MahiroAndo: thank you
[9:19pm] PeterThoeny: was proposed 2012-10-24
[9:19pm] PeterThoeny: e.g. 7 day feedback period not yet reached
[9:19pm] PeterThoeny: we can discuss and decide now if you wish
[9:19pm] PeterThoeny: all: what do you think of the proposal?
[9:20pm] PeterThoeny: it is analogous to registerTagHandler and registerRestHandler
[9:20pm] MahiroAndo: in short, it is for adding ability to plugins to hook all http handler,
which is needed for sso environment
[9:21pm] YaojunFei: I like this idea.
[9:21pm] PeterThoeny: any concerns?
[9:21pm] HideyoImazu: it sounds right
[9:22pm] PeterThoeny: ok
[9:22pm] PeterThoeny: GeorgeTrubisky?
[9:22pm] GeorgeTrubisky: abstain
[9:22pm] HideyoImazu: what if there are multiple plug-ins having that function?
[9:22pm] YaojunFei: only one concern is will whole application crash if one of its handler crash?
[9:22pm] HideyoImazu: the last one wins?
[9:23pm] MahiroAndo: I have made it that the first one wins, so that the first call of
getExternalHandler will have the most precedence
[9:23pm] PeterThoeny: the register handler is supposed to return quickly
[9:24pm] PeterThoeny: only one is probably fine
[9:24pm] PeterThoeny: but it should be documented
[9:24pm] MahiroAndo: if crash inside the hook is a concern, I can trap all the exception
[9:24pm] PeterThoeny: at a later point if needed we could enhance the handler to support
multipe calls like the registerTagHandler
[9:25pm] MahiroAndo: yes, I will add document
[9:25pm] PeterThoeny: so that qualifies as an accepted by release meeting i think
[9:25pm] PeterThoeny: MahiroAndo-san could you update the topic accordingly?
[9:25pm] PeterThoeny: next:
[9:25pm] HideyoImazu: agreed
[9:26pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/CategorizeTWikiVariables
[9:26pm] MahiroAndo: sure
[9:26pm] PeterThoeny: Categorize TWiki Variables
[9:26pm] PeterThoeny: by myself
[9:26pm] PeterThoeny: we have now 170 variables
[9:26pm] PeterThoeny: it is already difficult to find the right one
[9:26pm] PeterThoeny: and new users are overwhelmed
[9:26pm] PeterThoeny: categorizing them helps
[9:27pm] PeterThoeny: this is also in preparation for a future enhancements to the editors
[9:27pm] PeterThoeny: where i envision a wizard like in excel to select a formula
[9:28pm] PeterThoeny: any feedback on the feature?
[9:28pm] PeterThoeny: any feedback on the proposed categories?
[9:28pm] HideyoImazu: categorization means a variable belongs to one category only?
[9:29pm] PeterThoeny: no, idea is that a variable can have multiple categories
[9:29pm] HideyoImazu: or can belong to multiple categories?
[9:29pm] PeterThoeny: as shown in the VarACTIVATEDPLUGINS example
[9:29pm] PeterThoeny: comma-space separated list
[9:30pm] PeterThoeny: i'll document better
[9:30pm] HideyoImazu: then "categorize" may be misleading
[9:30pm] PeterThoeny: categories are not enforced (like in a piacklist in a twiki form)
[9:30pm] PeterThoeny: but just a bullet with text
[9:31pm] PeterThoeny: so a typo will not catch the category item
[9:31pm] PeterThoeny: what term are you thinking of in place of category?
[9:32pm] GeorgeTrubisky: metadata tag?
[9:32pm] HideyoImazu: ah, category should be fine
[9:33pm] HideyoImazu: i was thinking about classification, not categorization
[9:33pm] HideyoImazu: so no concern from me
[9:34pm] YaojunFei: a further thinking is user should be able to pick a variable from such
a category list when editing raw format for a page.
[9:35pm] PeterThoeny: yes, that is the idea
[9:35pm] PeterThoeny: the doc writer just types text in a bullet
[9:35pm] PeterThoeny: and users can query and search via picklist
[9:37pm] PeterThoeny: we already have a query page:
[9:37pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/TWiki/TWikiVariablesSearch
[9:37pm] PeterThoeny: once categorized, it is easy to add a picklist to the query
[9:38pm] PeterThoeny: and then, as mentioned before, as a next step a wizard in edit mode
where you can select a category and get a list of variables in that category
[9:38pm] PeterThoeny: twiki is powrful
[9:38pm] PeterThoeny: but out of reach for new users
[9:39pm] HideyoImazu: agreed
[9:39pm] PeterThoeny: this will make advanced functionality more accessible to new users
[9:39pm] PeterThoeny: i can wait for 7 day feedback period, no need to decide today
[9:40pm] MahiroAndo: good feature
[9:40pm] PeterThoeny: any other feedback?
[9:40pm] GeorgeTrubisky: useful for new developers
[9:40pm] PeterThoeny: yes, i think so
[9:40pm] PeterThoeny: next:
[9:40pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/EntityVariable
[9:40pm] PeterThoeny: New ENTITY Variable
[9:41pm] PeterThoeny: by myself
[9:41pm] PeterThoeny: small feature that can be done quickly
[9:41pm] PeterThoeny: maimly to make twiki apps more robust
[9:42pm] PeterThoeny: any feedback?
[9:42pm] HideyoImazu: seems useful
[9:43pm] PeterThoeny: i was first considering calling it ENCODEENTITY
[9:43pm] MahiroAndo: I think it's useful too
[9:43pm] YaojunFei: good to me
[9:43pm] PeterThoeny: but then shortened it, mainly also because alphabetically they are near by
[9:44pm] PeterThoeny: any concerns?
[9:44pm] PeterThoeny: can be decide in meeting if to accept?
[9:45pm] HideyoImazu: yes
[9:45pm] PeterThoeny: GeorgeTrubisky?
[9:45pm] YaojunFei: accept
[9:45pm] GeorgeTrubisky: sure
[9:45pm] PeterThoeny: ok, thanks
[9:45pm] GeorgeTrubisky: accept
[9:45pm] PeterThoeny: i'll update the topic
[9:45pm] PeterThoeny: this is all i have for feature proposals
[9:45pm] PeterThoeny: any other one?
[9:46pm] HideyoImazu: TWiki: :Func functions I introduced as part of ReadOnlyAndMirrorWebs
[9:47pm] PeterThoeny: ah, yes
[9:47pm] PeterThoeny: i see you posted n release meeting topic
[9:47pm] HideyoImazu: as mentioned as a comment on this meeting's topic
[9:47pm] PeterThoeny: going forward please create separate proposals for func api enhancements
[9:48pm] PeterThoeny: but for this time ok
[9:48pm] HideyoImazu: ok
[9:48pm] PeterThoeny: i have a question though
[9:48pm] PeterThoeny: getMasterWebScriptUrl looks like getScriptUrl
[9:48pm] HideyoImazu: yes
[9:49pm] PeterThoeny: i have seen recent plugin updates that have conditional code to call one
or the other
[9:49pm] PeterThoeny: any way to simplify this?
[9:49pm] HideyoImazu: ah
[9:50pm] PeterThoeny: for example, would it be possible to just use getScriptUrl, and behind
the scene twiki does the magic of one thing or the other?
[9:50pm] PeterThoeny: like we just did with the getExternalResources with cookies support
[9:51pm] HideyoImazu: good point
[9:51pm] PeterThoeny: i do not know the details, but if logically it could be done, it would
be cleaner to remove the getMasterWebScriptUrl and do the logic behind the scenes
[9:52pm] PeterThoeny: no need to discuss and decide here
[9:52pm] PeterThoeny: just food for thought
[9:53pm] HideyoImazu: it's sort of in rhetrospect,
[9:53pm] HideyoImazu: i'll create a proposal about those functions.
[9:53pm] HideyoImazu: maybe some functions are really needed.
[9:54pm] PeterThoeny: i like the example of getExternalResource: first we had two functions
that do logically the same, then reduced to one, possible by adding a new register handler
[9:55pm] PeterThoeny: similarly, you might need to add a new register/init function to
support the consolidation of the get url functions
[9:55pm] PeterThoeny: with api enhancements i think it is worth while to spend some brain
cycles because apis outlive software implementations
[9:55pm] HideyoImazu: getScriptUrl() and %SCRUPTURL{...}% are close but the former takes
more arguments and more features
[9:56pm] PeterThoeny: ok, this is all i have
[9:56pm] PeterThoeny: anything else on features?
[9:58pm] PeterThoeny: one more idea
[9:58pm] PeterThoeny: if you need to pass additional params to getScriptURL, you could
define reserved keys for key => value pairs
[9:59pm] PeterThoeny: and filter those out
[9:59pm] PeterThoeny: there is already a reserved key '#'
[9:59pm] PeterThoeny: for anchor
[9:59pm] PeterThoeny: next:
[10:00pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 2. Review Urgent and Not So Urgent Bugs
[10:00pm] PeterThoeny: http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki4/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/ReleaseBlocker
[10:00pm] PeterThoeny: time check: +60 min
[10:00pm] PeterThoeny: GeorgeTrubisky:  anything on bugs?
[10:00pm] GeorgeTrubisky: no
[10:01pm] PeterThoeny: i also don't have anything
[10:01pm] PeterThoeny: on bugs
[10:01pm] PeterThoeny: ---+ 3. Extensions
[10:02pm] PeterThoeny: thanks MahiroAndo-san for contributing the new SsoForwardCookiePlugin
[10:02pm] MahiroAndo: you are welcome
[10:02pm] PeterThoeny: i added a new option for "tested on" called svn trunk
[10:02pm] PeterThoeny: i set this plugin to that value
[10:02pm] GeorgeTrubisky: I have to drop, take care everyone!
[10:03pm] GeorgeTrubisky: quit
[10:03pm]  GeorgeTrubisky left the chat room.
[10:03pm] PeterThoeny: we have had a number of plugin updates
[10:04pm] PeterThoeny: new contributor MikeDoherty from canada just got active
[10:04pm] PeterThoeny: he did some checkins, updating the kino search add-on
[10:05pm] MahiroAndo: nice
[10:05pm] HideyoImazu: what's kino search?
[10:05pm] PeterThoeny: yes, it is great to see more people getting involved!
[10:05pm] PeterThoeny: it's an open source search engine in perl
[10:05pm] PeterThoeny: it does real indexing
[10:06pm] PeterThoeny: and is able to search common attachment types
[10:06pm] PeterThoeny: so you can search in word, excel etc
[10:06pm] PeterThoeny: intended to replace the grep based search of twiki
[10:06pm] HideyoImazu: ah, cool
[10:07pm] PeterThoeny: except for twiki app specific queries (forms query with querylanguage
or regex remain)
[10:08pm] PeterThoeny: trouble is, kino search does not seem to be actively maintained anymore
[10:08pm] PeterThoeny: that's why i posted
[10:08pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/BetterSearchEngine
[10:08pm] PeterThoeny: there is a relatively new apache project called lucy
[10:09pm] PeterThoeny: that liiks quite promising
[10:09pm] PeterThoeny: "looks"
[10:09pm] PeterThoeny: that is all i have on extensions
[10:09pm] PeterThoeny: any other extension to cover?
[10:10pm] PeterThoeny: if not - next:
[10:10pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 4. Miscellaneous
[10:10pm] PeterThoeny: anything?
[10:12pm] PeterThoeny: if not, let's close the meeting
[10:13pm] PeterThoeny: i'll post the logs and update the minutes
[10:13pm] PeterThoeny: thanks all!
[10:13pm] MahiroAndo: thanks Peter!
[10:13pm] YaojunFei: thank you, Peter. Bye
[10:13pm] HideyoImazu: ttyl
[10:13pm]  YaojunFei left the chat room. (Quit: Page closed)
[10:13pm]  MahiroAndo left the chat room.
[10:13pm] HideyoImazu: quit
[10:14pm]  HideyoImazu left the chat room. (Quit: Page closed)