Date: October 11, 2012 11:26:17 PM PDT
Subject: JerusalemMeetingLog2012x10x12.txt

[8:55pm]  GeorgeTrubisky joined the chat room.
[8:57pm] •GeorgeTrubisky hi Peter
[8:59pm]  MahiroAndo joined the chat room.
[9:00pm]  YaojunFei joined the chat room.
[9:00pm] •GeorgeTrubisky hi Mahiro; Yaojun
[9:00pm] YaojunFei: Hi, George.
[9:00pm] YaojunFei: How are you
[9:01pm] GeorgeTrubisky: I am well, thank you
[9:01pm] YaojunFei: what's your local time?
[9:01pm] GeorgeTrubisky: 9 pm
[9:01pm] GeorgeTrubisky: yours?
[9:01pm] YaojunFei: 12pm
[9:02pm]  HideyoImazu joined the chat room.
[9:02pm] MahiroAndo: hi
[9:02pm] MahiroAndo: it's 1pm in tokyo
[9:02pm] PeterThoeny: hi GeorgeTrubisky  HideyoImazu  MahiroAndo  YaojunFei!
[9:02pm] PeterThoeny: i am now in a restaurant in san francisco
[9:02pm] PeterThoeny: had some glasses of wine
[9:02pm] PeterThoeny: a bit tipsy but ok
[9:02pm] YaojunFei: Hi, Peter
[9:02pm] PeterThoeny: went to an event on cyber security
[9:03pm] PeterThoeny: presented by a white/gray hacker, now editor at wired mag
[9:03pm] HideyoImazu: Peter, you're on the restaurant's WiFi or a cellular network?
[9:03pm] YaojunFei: Cool
[9:04pm] PeterThoeny: wikifi
[9:04pm] PeterThoeny: wifi
[9:06pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiFeatureProposals
[9:07pm] PeterThoeny: now i am munching on olives
[9:07pm] PeterThoeny: first, agends
[9:07pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/JerusalemReleaseMeeting2012x10x12
[9:07pm] PeterThoeny: 1. Feature Requests for Jerusalem Release
[9:07pm] PeterThoeny: 2. Review Urgent and Not So Urgent Bugs
[9:07pm] PeterThoeny: 3. Extensions
[9:07pm] PeterThoeny: 4. TWiki-5.1.2 Release Post-Mortem
[9:07pm] PeterThoeny: 5. Miscellaneous
[9:07pm] PeterThoeny: this is plenty
[9:07pm] PeterThoeny: any additional item?
[9:09pm] PeterThoeny: if, not, lets start
[9:09pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 1. Feature Requests for Jerusalem Release
[9:09pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiFeatureProposals
[9:09pm] PeterThoeny: who wants to take one to discuss?
[9:10pm] MahiroAndo: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/SingleSignOnForINCLUDE
[9:10pm] MahiroAndo: it's for supporting %INCLUDE{"intranet url"}%
[9:11pm] MahiroAndo: where login token in cookie is based on single sign on
[9:11pm] PeterThoeny: i read the proposal
[9:11pm] PeterThoeny: looks good to me
[9:11pm] PeterThoeny: it's optional with configure flag if i understand properly
[9:11pm] MahiroAndo: yes, that's correct
[9:12pm] PeterThoeny: default is off?
[9:13pm] MahiroAndo: if config is not set up, nothing is enabled (same as current)
[9:14pm] MahiroAndo: and default is off
[9:15pm] PeterThoeny: lets get a quick count, who in favor (ok), who has questions (discuss)
[9:16pm] MahiroAndo: should I wait for 1 week before committing to svn?
[9:16pm] GeorgeTrubisky: not if its accepted tonight
[9:16pm] HideyoImazu: ok
[9:16pm] PeterThoeny: ok for me
[9:17pm] YaojunFei: ok
[9:17pm] GeorgeTrubisky: abstain
[9:18pm] PeterThoeny: so, looks like accepted at release meeting
[9:18pm] PeterThoeny:
[9:18pm] MahiroAndo: thanks. good to hear
[9:19pm] PeterThoeny: fyi, rel;ease management process is documented at
http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiReleaseManagementProcess
[9:19pm] PeterThoeny: (forgive my typos tonight, it's kind of dark here in the resatrant)
[9:20pm] PeterThoeny: what other feature proposals you'd like to discuss
[9:20pm] HideyoImazu: no worries
[9:20pm] GeorgeTrubisky: updated the proposal to "AcceptedProposal"
[9:20pm] YaojunFei: I added some comments on DiffAttachment feature & ChildTopicPermission feature.
[9:20pm] PeterThoeny: diffattachments needs some tlc (tender loving care)
[9:21pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/DiffAttachments
[9:22pm] YaojunFei: I think a size limitation is necessary. I happened to see some large log files
uploaded by our TWiki user. Diff on such large files can cause request time-out
[9:22pm] PeterThoeny: makes total sense
[9:22pm] PeterThoeny: i have seen iso images uploaded to twiki
[9:23pm] PeterThoeny: peterlones is inactive for some time, so if someone wants to claim this
feature, please go ahead
[9:24pm] HideyoImazu: wow. an ISO image!
[9:24pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/ControlledTopicPermissionInheritance
[9:24pm] YaojunFei: for this item, I just want to know what will happen if user don't have
permission to change on of its child topics?
[9:25pm] PeterThoeny: ah, this is permission inheritance based on topic parent relationship
[9:25pm] PeterThoeny: interesting issue
[9:25pm] PeterThoeny: logically good to have
[9:25pm] PeterThoeny: question of performance
[9:25pm] PeterThoeny: like with many other proposals, this needs tlc
[9:25pm] PeterThoeny: no progress unless someone claims this as an owner
[9:26pm] PeterThoeny: well, michaelgulitz is listed as committed developer, but if someone else
wants to claim due to inactivity, i am for it
[9:27pm] PeterThoeny: the way i interpret the proposed spec, if no setting is done of a topic, it
inherts the settings from parent(s), then other chain as usual
[9:27pm] PeterThoeny: logically correct, but question of performance
[9:28pm] HideyoImazu: ii'm going to propose an enhancement suggested in my comment to the proposal.
[9:28pm] PeterThoeny: right now, access control check is fixed: topic, web, user, site x 2
[9:28pm] HideyoImazu: allowing variables in access control variables.
[9:29pm] PeterThoeny: HideyoImazu:  this sounds uxseful too, looks like a separate proposal for me
[9:29pm] PeterThoeny: any other proposal?
[9:30pm] PeterThoeny: time check: +30 min
[9:30pm] HideyoImazu: i've been using the feature for a few years and haven't faced performance
problems.
[9:30pm] HideyoImazu: primarily because it's optional
[9:31pm] HideyoImazu: sure, i'm going to make a separate proposal soon.
[9:31pm] PeterThoeny: yes, eval of variables in prefs is likely less prone to performance issues
than checking a chain of parents
[9:31pm] PeterThoeny: i'd like to mention a few proposals
[9:31pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/AddScrollBoxAddOnToCoreDistribution
[9:31pm] PeterThoeny: and
[9:31pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/AddTWikiDashboardAddOnToCoreDistribution
[9:32pm] PeterThoeny: now accepted by 7 days rule
[9:32pm] GeorgeTrubisky: yup
[9:32pm] PeterThoeny: i intend to change the main.webhome and twiki.webhome to dashboards
[9:32pm] PeterThoeny: for two purposes
[9:32pm] PeterThoeny: 1. educational (here is what you can do)
[9:32pm] PeterThoeny: 2. looks (twiki looks sexy)
[9:33pm] PeterThoeny: any idea how to improve the dashboard?
[9:33pm] PeterThoeny: or what to show in the webhomes?
[9:33pm] MahiroAndo: looks cool
[9:34pm] PeterThoeny: please add your comments to the proposal topic, or comment here
[9:35pm] PeterThoeny: next:
[9:35pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/NoFollowInDependentPages
[9:35pm] PeterThoeny: i just posed this before the meeting
[9:35pm] PeterThoeny: " Spiders on public sites sometimes index content without regard to robots.txt
and neglect URL parameter directives, such as links to previous versions of pages. Same for
browser "optimizers" that greedily prefetch pages. This can lead to a temporary high load on
public TWiki sites."
[9:37pm] PeterThoeny: i can wait for 7 days
[9:37pm] PeterThoeny: or shall we get a handle who is for, agains?
[9:37pm] HideyoImazu: my intranet search crawler does that too, which sometimes affects our TWiki
[9:38pm] PeterThoeny: this assumes that the spiders advers to the nofollow parameter
[9:38pm] PeterThoeny: which is not guaranteed
[9:38pm] PeterThoeny: on twiki.org we have daily a few cases where browsers pre-load pages at a high
rate
[9:39pm] PeterThoeny: in the logs i see that the same page is loaded 50 times
[9:39pm] PeterThoeny: necause of the previous topic history links
[9:39pm] PeterThoeny: mainly opera browsers have this habit
[9:39pm] PeterThoeny: those browser's ip addresses get automatically blocked now by a script
[9:40pm] PeterThoeny: if we have this ption it hopefully stops that greedy behaviour
[9:40pm] PeterThoeny: who is "ok", "not ok", "needs discussion", "abstain??
[9:41pm] •GeorgeTrubisky ok (I follow this one)
[9:41pm] MahiroAndo: do you mean nofollow in <meta> or individual <a>?
[9:41pm] PeterThoeny: in individual a tags
[9:42pm] PeterThoeny: the blacklistplugin already handles the nofollow as meta tag
[9:42pm] HideyoImazu: isn't it the way links generated by TWiki for the most part now?
[9:42pm] PeterThoeny: some produce nofollow
[9:43pm] PeterThoeny: idea is to add nofollow to most links, except normal links to other topics
[9:43pm] PeterThoeny: and except external links
[9:44pm] MahiroAndo: makes sense. sounds good to me
[9:44pm] PeterThoeny: HideyoImazu: , YaojunFei?
[9:45pm] HideyoImazu: i'm ok with the proposal.
[9:45pm] YaojunFei: that's good to me
[9:45pm] PeterThoeny: ok, accepted by re;lease meeting
[9:45pm] PeterThoeny: next
[9:45pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/NoInAllPublicWebsOption
[9:46pm] PeterThoeny: timothe added some heated arguments
[9:46pm] PeterThoeny: as i stated before, i am ok with this feature as proposed
[9:46pm] HideyoImazu: yes
[9:47pm] PeterThoeny: although i would like to see the more general web cluster implemented instead
of the noallwebs feature
[9:47pm] PeterThoeny: because it is more flexibel
[9:48pm] PeterThoeny: so, hideyo-san, please implement as proposed, but please consider also
replacing the implementation by a web cluster feature
[9:48pm] HideyoImazu: without a counter-proposal, this is the only way to avoid "in all public webs"
links destined to browser time out.
[9:48pm] HideyoImazu: I'm totally fine to abandon this proposal when a more generic solution is
provided.
[9:48pm] HideyoImazu: this is about a site level preference.
[9:49pm] HideyoImazu: it's trivial to switch to a more generic solution.
[9:49pm] PeterThoeny: well, as you know it is easy to _propose_ a new feature, it takes more time to
_implement and test_ a feature
[9:49pm] PeterThoeny: so the question is who is the committed developer
[9:50pm] PeterThoeny: of the more generic web cluster feature
[9:50pm] HideyoImazu: agreed
[9:50pm] PeterThoeny: so i just put out the question, no need to answer now
[9:50pm] PeterThoeny: just food for thought
[9:50pm] PeterThoeny: this is all i had for proposals
[9:50pm] PeterThoeny: time check: +50 min
[9:51pm] PeterThoeny: any other feature proposal?
[9:52pm] PeterThoeny: if not, next:
[9:52pm] PeterThoeny: 2. Review Urgent and Not So Urgent Bugs
[9:52pm] PeterThoeny: GeorgeTrubisky?
[9:53pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 2. Review Urgent and Not So Urgent Bugs
[9:53pm] GeorgeTrubisky: nothing for me
[9:53pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 3. Extensions
[9:53pm] PeterThoeny: any plugin highlights?
[9:54pm] PeterThoeny: thanks MahiroAndo  and YaojunFei for fixing many plugins!
[9:54pm] YaojunFei: it's my pleasure
[9:54pm] PeterThoeny: you already update the plugin topic's history, which is good
[9:54pm] PeterThoeny: please get into habit to publish to twiki.org as well
[9:55pm] PeterThoeny: once setup, it's a simple: ./build.pl upload
[9:55pm] MahiroAndo: ok I will try
[9:55pm] YaojunFei: I have a question for SyntaxHighlightPlugin. Why the version we are using is
totally different from the latest version? Was there a big change for some reason?
[9:56pm] MahiroAndo: (I haven't been able to make it work 100% in our internal environment. I'll
spend some time to make it work)
[9:56pm] PeterThoeny: not sure what is different
[9:56pm] HideyoImazu: "build.pl upload" does it, right?
[9:56pm] PeterThoeny: you mean the one on twiki.org and svn is different?
[9:57pm] YaojunFei: Yes. The latest version changes tag name from %SYNTAX% to %CODE%. and some of
its parameter are also deprecated
[9:57pm] YaojunFei: like numberStep
[9:57pm] YaojunFei: like numberstep, color, style
[9:57pm] PeterThoeny: i don't know this particluar plugin, so i can't comment
[9:57pm] YaojunFei: ok
[9:57pm] PeterThoeny: some plugin autheros only maintain on twiki.org, but many do in svn
[9:58pm] PeterThoeny: svn is preferred
[9:58pm] PeterThoeny: if need you can try to get in touch with original author via email
[9:58pm] PeterThoeny: anything else on extensions?
[10:00pm] PeterThoeny: time check: +60 min
[10:00pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 4. TWiki-5.1.2 Release Post-Mortem
[10:00pm] GeorgeTrubisky: thank you HideyoImazu for
http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki4/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/Item6870
[10:00pm]  HideyoImazu left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[10:01pm] PeterThoeny: george and i were communicating over skype on the weekend
[10:01pm] PeterThoeny: it worked pretty well
[10:01pm] GeorgeTrubisky: yes, very flexible
[10:01pm] PeterThoeny: any way we can improve the build process?
[10:02pm] PeterThoeny: for me: more vigilent on unit testing so that there are no "gotchas" at the
release
[10:02pm] GeorgeTrubisky: run the unit test prior to the release weekend
[10:02pm] GeorgeTrubisky: tests
[10:02pm] PeterThoeny: we had some delays on saturday due to unit test failures
[10:02pm]  HideyoImazu joined the chat room.
[10:03pm] GeorgeTrubisky: thank you HideyoImazu for
http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki4/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/Item6870
[10:03pm] PeterThoeny: yes, unit test failures where main issue
[10:03pm] PeterThoeny: not issues, but delays during build
[10:03pm] PeterThoeny: thanks HideyoImazu for fixing the unit test issue in trunk
[10:03pm] PeterThoeny: once we took into branch it was ok
[10:04pm] GeorgeTrubisky: yes!
[10:04pm] PeterThoeny: any other item to improve on build?
[10:04pm] GeorgeTrubisky: I'm good
[10:04pm] PeterThoeny: ok, me too
[10:05pm] PeterThoeny: this is all i have
[10:05pm] PeterThoeny: anything else?
[10:05pm] GeorgeTrubisky: great work on the release blog Peter
[10:05pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 5. Miscellaneous
[10:05pm] PeterThoeny: thanks georhe
[10:05pm] PeterThoeny: "george"
[10:05pm] GeorgeTrubisky:
[10:05pm] PeterThoeny: i did some additional tweeks yesterday
[10:05pm] PeterThoeny: and i sent out many emails yesterday
[10:06pm] PeterThoeny: announcing to blogge and websites
[10:06pm] PeterThoeny: and analysts
[10:06pm] PeterThoeny: likely tomorrow i announce to [twikiannounce]
[10:06pm] PeterThoeny: ok, i gotta go
[10:06pm] PeterThoeny: 60 min dribe home
[10:07pm] HideyoImazu: ttl everybody
[10:07pm] PeterThoeny: ttyl qll, thanks all!!
[10:07pm] •GeorgeTrubisky waves goodbye
[10:07pm] YaojunFei: bye
[10:07pm] PeterThoeny: ill post the logs
[10:07pm] MahiroAndo: thanks!