Date: September 27, 2012 10:22:49 PM PDT
Subject: JerusalemMeetingLog2012x09x28.txt

[8:52pm]  GeorgeTrubisky joined the chat room.
[8:59pm]  HideyoImazu joined the chat room.
[9:00pm] PeterThoeny: hi GeorgeTrubisky, hi HideyoImazu!
[9:00pm] HideyoImazu: hi Peter,  hi George
[9:01pm] HideyoImazu: I need to leave in 25 min today.
[9:01pm] GeorgeTrubisky: hi guys
[9:02pm] PeterThoeny: oic, so lett's talk first about hideyo-san's stuff
[9:02pm] PeterThoeny: HideyoImazu:  are your other members joining today?
[9:04pm] PeterThoeny: proposed agenda:
[9:04pm] PeterThoeny: 1. Feature Requests for Jerusalem Release
[9:04pm] PeterThoeny: 2. Review Urgent and Not So Urgent Bugs
[9:04pm] PeterThoeny: 3. Miscellaneous
[9:04pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 1. Feature Requests for Jerusalem Release
[9:04pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiFeatureProposals
[9:05pm] PeterThoeny: HideyoImazu:  which ones do you want to cover?
[9:05pm] PeterThoeny: may be this newone:
[9:05pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/CustomizablePerssmionToCreateANewWeb
[9:05pm]  MahiroAndo joined the chat room.
[9:05pm] PeterThoeny: hi MahiroAndo
[9:05pm]  HideyoImazu left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[9:05pm] PeterThoeny: we just started
[9:05pm] MahiroAndo: hi Peter
[9:05pm] PeterThoeny: oh, we lost hideyo-san
[9:05pm] MahiroAndo: ok
[9:06pm]  HideyoImazu joined the chat room.
[9:06pm] PeterThoeny: thank you MahiroAndo-san for contributing two new plugins!!
[9:06pm] PeterThoeny: HideyoImazu:  what was the last thing you saw?
[9:06pm] PeterThoeny: i suggested to talk about
http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/CustomizablePerssmionToCreateANewWeb
[9:07pm] HideyoImazu: my saying "i need to go in 25 min'
[9:07pm] HideyoImazu: any question or suggestion?
[9:07pm] PeterThoeny: so let's talk about your stuff first
[9:08pm] PeterThoeny: on CustomizablePerssmionToCreateANewWeb i am not clear on spec enhancement/change
[9:09pm] HideyoImazu: you understand that there are cases where you want to allow creation of subweb, but
not topics.
[9:09pm] HideyoImazu: this is about user subweb instead of user topic
[9:10pm] PeterThoeny: current spec is to have ROOTCHANGE rights
[9:10pm] PeterThoeny: e.g. member of ALLOWROOTCHANGE
[9:10pm] HideyoImazu: to avoid the Main web being cluttered, I need to restrict edit on the Main web
[9:10pm] HideyoImazu: but a user need to be able to creat their own subweb
[9:11pm] HideyoImazu: while forbidding creating topics or other subwebs.
[9:11pm] PeterThoeny: current twiki.twikipreferenes has:
[9:11pm] PeterThoeny:   * Set ALLOWROOTCHANGE = TWikiAdminGroup
[9:12pm] HideyoImazu: when I say "a user", I meant "any user"
[9:12pm] PeterThoeny: this might be alreqady covered?
[9:12pm] PeterThoeny: so global is  Set ALLOWROOTCHANGE = TWikiAdminGroup
[9:12pm] HideyoImazu: no
[9:12pm] PeterThoeny: and you overload in webprefs where needed
[9:12pm] HideyoImazu: yes
[9:12pm] HideyoImazu: sort of
[9:13pm] HideyoImazu: I want to have a room for exception
[9:13pm] HideyoImazu: if the function returns true, regardless of other factors, that operation is allowed.
[9:15pm] PeterThoeny: why can't you overload the ALLOWROOTCHANGE in the Main web;s webpreferences?
[9:16pm] HideyoImazu: if that's done, anybody can create any subweb or topic on the Main web.
[9:16pm] PeterThoeny: anyway, i am ok with this feature, just make sure the exception is well documented
[9:16pm] HideyoImazu: that leads to a lot of topics and subwebs unaccounted for
[9:16pm] HideyoImazu: in the long run given tens of thousands of users
[9:17pm] HideyoImazu: will be documented clearly.
[9:17pm] PeterThoeny: so if i understand, you want to allow JimmyNeutron to create a JimmyNeutron subweb
in the Main web, but not other sub-webs?
[9:18pm] HideyoImazu: correct
[9:18pm] HideyoImazu: and I don't want him to create the JimmyNeutron topic either
[9:18pm] PeterThoeny: wouldn't it be better to have teh subweb created at the time of registration?
[9:19pm] HideyoImazu: there is no registration on our TWiki
[9:19pm] PeterThoeny: e.g. a configure flag to select current spec or subweb spec
[9:19pm] PeterThoeny: ah
[9:19pm] HideyoImazu: everybody having an account can use it as authenticated user
[9:20pm] PeterThoeny: for ldap based installs i did i like to use the RequireRegistrationPlugin
[9:20pm] HideyoImazu: and not all users have their personal webs.
[9:20pm] PeterThoeny: where users are forced to register (e.g. get a profile page) before they can edit pages
[9:21pm] PeterThoeny: so for user friendly operation you could create a plugin that creates a subweb for
new users
[9:21pm] PeterThoeny: for example at the time of editing the first page
[9:22pm] PeterThoeny: the plugin can bypass the access restriction
[9:22pm] HideyoImazu: we have good enough amount of information on LDAP for every user in our environment.
so there is no need for registration
[9:22pm] PeterThoeny: i see registration and suser subweb creation as the same thing
[9:22pm] PeterThoeny: you probably show some info of user in subweb home
[9:23pm] PeterThoeny: such as name and phone number?
[9:23pm] HideyoImazu: a new team member may need to update a team's topic. and sometime later, she may want
to have her personal web.
[9:23pm] HideyoImazu: for every account, we have real name, email address, phone number, division, manager,
etc. on LDAP
[9:24pm] PeterThoeny: yes, and you can display those values using LdapNgPlugin
[9:24pm] PeterThoeny: anyway, i just wanted to throw this idea
[9:24pm] PeterThoeny: food for thought
[9:24pm] HideyoImazu: yes, we are doing it. so we don't need registration.
[9:25pm] HideyoImazu: personal webs are like unix home directory in our environment
[9:25pm] HideyoImazu: you can use it but you don't have to.
[9:25pm] PeterThoeny: so no common look for all users?
[9:25pm] HideyoImazu: i need to run.
[9:25pm] PeterThoeny: ok
[9:25pm] PeterThoeny: any other thing before you go?
[9:26pm] HideyoImazu: no
[9:26pm] HideyoImazu: see you guys!
[9:26pm]  HideyoImazu left the chat room. (Quit: Page closed)
[9:26pm] PeterThoeny: ok, let's continue
[9:26pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/FixedTopMenuPreferencesSetting
[9:27pm] PeterThoeny: i proposed that
[9:27pm] PeterThoeny: already implemented
[9:27pm] PeterThoeny: i don't want to pat my own shoulder, but i find this pretty cool
[9:27pm] PeterThoeny: is installed on twiki.org
[9:27pm] PeterThoeny: on any topic sroll down slowly
[9:27pm] GeorgeTrubisky: ok
[9:28pm] PeterThoeny: you will see that the top menu frist stays in place
[9:28pm] PeterThoeny: when you scroll more than 22 pixel it will disappear
[9:28pm] PeterThoeny: but at the left a T logo remains
[9:28pm] PeterThoeny: where you can hover to expand the topmenu
[9:28pm] PeterThoeny: regardless where you are on the page
[9:29pm] PeterThoeny: i added a delay of 1 sec to close the menu
[9:30pm] GeorgeTrubisky: very nice!
[9:30pm] PeterThoeny: with a preferencdes setting (also in profile page now) you can toggle to "topmenu
always on"
[9:30pm] MahiroAndo: is this the T icon at the top already visible in twiki.org pages?
[9:30pm] PeterThoeny: yes
[9:31pm] MahiroAndo: oh great. I've found it cool
[9:31pm] PeterThoeny: the latest topemuskin has this now
[9:31pm] PeterThoeny: so you can update your twiki to get this feature early
[9:31pm] GeorgeTrubisky: current state is UnderInvestigation….intend to include in next release?
[9:32pm] PeterThoeny: yes, i forgot to toggle after 7 days to accepted
[9:32pm] GeorgeTrubisky: ah, bug is waiting for release
[9:32pm] PeterThoeny: well, it's marked for jerusalem release, e.g. 5.2
[9:33pm] PeterThoeny: but anyone can update the skin to get this feature now
[9:33pm] PeterThoeny: i use jquery for this
[9:33pm] PeterThoeny: i get to like jquery more and more
[9:33pm] GeorgeTrubisky: so all the good progress mention in the invite email….all included in the next
release?
[9:33pm] PeterThoeny: no
[9:33pm] GeorgeTrubisky: 52 items waiting for release
[9:33pm] PeterThoeny: upcoming release is a patch release
[9:34pm] PeterThoeny: so only patch features/fixes will be included
[9:34pm] PeterThoeny: e.g. all twiki51 branch stuff
[9:34pm] PeterThoeny: we are not yet ready with jerusalem features, hence the reason to do one more patch
release
[9:35pm] PeterThoeny: next feature:
[9:35pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/NoInAllPublicWebsOption
[9:36pm] PeterThoeny: it looks like we have consensus reached on this one
[9:36pm] PeterThoeny: e.g. limited scope as proposed by hideyo-san
[9:37pm] PeterThoeny: i think that's it for new proposals
[9:37pm] PeterThoeny: any other features to discuss?
[9:37pm] GeorgeTrubisky: not by me
[9:38pm] PeterThoeny: ---++  2. Review Urgent and Not So Urgent Bugs
[9:38pm] PeterThoeny: http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki4/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/ReleaseBlocker
[9:38pm] MahiroAndo: I agree with the NOINALLPUBLICWEBS. and no more topics from me either
[9:38pm] PeterThoeny: i have no release blocker to discuss
[9:38pm] PeterThoeny: george?
[9:38pm] GeorgeTrubisky: none
[9:39pm] PeterThoeny: on-blockers:
[9:39pm] PeterThoeny: i fixed some bugs
[9:39pm] PeterThoeny: http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki4/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/Item6534
[9:40pm] PeterThoeny:  Item6534: Insecure dependency in tools/extender.pl when installing extension in
configure
[9:40pm] PeterThoeny: this is an important one
[9:40pm] PeterThoeny: configure based install failed in dome env and for some extensions
[9:40pm] PeterThoeny: i finally tracked down the issues
[9:40pm] PeterThoeny: there were two
[9:40pm] PeterThoeny: http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki4/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/Item6936
[9:41pm] PeterThoeny:  Item6936: Pulldown menu closes too early on hover if more than one menu on page
[9:41pm] PeterThoeny: small issue but nasty for those who are affected
[9:42pm] PeterThoeny: that's all i have on bugs
[9:42pm] GeorgeTrubisky: ok
[9:42pm] PeterThoeny: anything else on bugs?
[9:42pm] PeterThoeny: let's talk about extensions before misc
[9:43pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 3. Extensions
[9:43pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/JiraPlugin
[9:43pm] PeterThoeny: thank you MahiroAndo for contributing!
[9:44pm] MahiroAndo: you're welcome
[9:44pm] MahiroAndo: that's what we have used in our firm for a while, as jira has been so popular internally
[9:44pm] PeterThoeny: i have some suggested changes to the doc topic
[9:44pm] MahiroAndo: ok
[9:45pm] PeterThoeny: is it ok if i make the changes directly?
[9:45pm] MahiroAndo: sure, please go ahead
[9:45pm] PeterThoeny: mainly style stuff
[9:45pm] MahiroAndo: ok. I'll learn from it
[9:45pm] PeterThoeny: you also learned how to release & upload with build script, nice!
[9:46pm] PeterThoeny: any questions on extension release process?
[9:46pm] MahiroAndo: well, I think I also need to learn testing stuff. I haven't read enough, so that's my
todo
[9:47pm] PeterThoeny: btw, the tools/fixtopicmeta script is useful to fix the topic meta info to
"TWikiContributor", proper rev, etc
[9:47pm] PeterThoeny: i use that script always before ci
[9:47pm] MahiroAndo: I'm used to the classical way with prove command, but haven't tried UnitTesting feature
with twiki
[9:47pm] PeterThoeny: of a topic
[9:48pm] PeterThoeny: i also should get into the habit of using more unit tests
[9:49pm] MahiroAndo: oh btw, I also wonder what's the best way to keep the plugin doc up-to-date
[9:49pm] MahiroAndo: because we have doc in Plugins web, and the .txt file in the zip file separately..
[9:50pm] PeterThoeny: on plugin docs, just look that the history and release number is updated
[9:50pm] PeterThoeny: i usually use iso date for release number
[9:51pm] PeterThoeny: ah, i just edit the plugin topic in the TWiki web using the browser
[9:51pm] PeterThoeny: then use fixtopicmeta before ci
[9:51pm] PeterThoeny: due to symlink of pseudoinstall it just works
[9:52pm] PeterThoeny: if in plugin topic you refer to other topics in the TWiki web, prefix with %SYSTEMWEB%.
[9:52pm] PeterThoeny: that way the link also work if published to twiki.org's Plugins web
[9:53pm] PeterThoeny: does that answer the question?
[9:53pm] MahiroAndo: ok, so basically we edit the page using browser in our local installation first, then
update the twiki.org's plugins web, commit it to svn, and upload the zip?
[9:54pm] PeterThoeny: ah, also, if the plugin handles a plugin specific variable such as %JIRA{}%, it is
good to create a VarJIRA.txt topic
[9:54pm] PeterThoeny: all VarXXX topic are automatically listed in the big TWikiVariables topic
[9:54pm] MahiroAndo: ok
[9:55pm] PeterThoeny: e.g. after install of a plugin, the plugin's variable(s) magically appear in the
TWikiVariables topic
[9:55pm] PeterThoeny: you can see how other plugins do that
[9:55pm] PeterThoeny: such as SetGetPlugin
[9:55pm] PeterThoeny: follow the format of other variable doc topics (h2 heading and bullets)
[9:55pm] MahiroAndo: ok, that sounds nice. I'll make sure to add Var pages
[9:56pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/IncludeXMLPlugin
[9:56pm] MahiroAndo: if anyone else edits the plugin page at twiki.org, we need to manually merge it to our
local one?
[9:56pm] PeterThoeny: this looks very flexible
[9:56pm] PeterThoeny: that depens on the DevelopedInSVN flag
[9:57pm] PeterThoeny: if "no", dev and doc happens in plugins web on twiki.org
[9:57pm] PeterThoeny: if "yes" (default & preferred) dev and doc happens in svn
[9:57pm] MahiroAndo: ah that makes sense
[9:57pm] PeterThoeny: so ok to overwrite existing topic in plugins web (by release update)
[9:58pm] PeterThoeny: well, in practice i monitor the changes in the plugins web
[9:58pm] MahiroAndo: so if "yes", any changes in plugins web will be discarded?
[9:58pm] PeterThoeny: and update the relevant plugin doc in svn if needed
[9:58pm] PeterThoeny: yes
[9:59pm] MahiroAndo: ok, makes perfect sense now
[9:59pm] PeterThoeny: i'll help out on docs
[9:59pm] MahiroAndo: thanks for the explanation!
[9:59pm] MahiroAndo: yes, appreciate your help
[9:59pm] PeterThoeny: so do an svn up before you work on the doc topics
[10:00pm] PeterThoeny: Yaojun Fei is not here today
[10:00pm] PeterThoeny: he enhacned RedirectPlugin and CommentPlugin
[10:00pm] PeterThoeny: that is all i have on plugins
[10:00pm] PeterThoeny: and extensions
[10:00pm] PeterThoeny: anything else on extensions?
[10:01pm] PeterThoeny: time check: +60 min
[10:01pm] PeterThoeny: ---++  4. Miscellaneous
[10:01pm] GeorgeTrubisky: I'll work on setting up my build environment for 5.1.2 this weekend and run some
tests
[10:02pm] PeterThoeny: GeorgeTrubisky:  anything we need to discuss in regards to twiki-5.1.2 release?
[10:02pm] PeterThoeny: ah good
[10:02pm] GeorgeTrubisky: just a patch release…so just the 5.1 branch?
[10:02pm] PeterThoeny: yes
[10:02pm] GeorgeTrubisky: ic.  Ok
[10:03pm] PeterThoeny: i hope we can do 5.2 this year, not sure though
[10:03pm] PeterThoeny: the major release might be pushed to early 2013
[10:03pm] GeorgeTrubisky: looks like some major enhancements are in the works
[10:03pm] PeterThoeny: yes, which is good/needed
[10:04pm] GeorgeTrubisky: ok.  so I'll contact you saturday, 10/6
[10:04pm] PeterThoeny: sounds good
[10:04pm] GeorgeTrubisky: for 5.1.2
[10:04pm] PeterThoeny: that is all i had
[10:04pm] PeterThoeny: anything else before we wrap up?
[10:04pm] GeorgeTrubisky: like wise.  Hope your eyes are better.  ttyl
[10:05pm] PeterThoeny: yea, kind of bothering me
[10:05pm] PeterThoeny: i increased the font size a lot on this chat
[10:05pm] PeterThoeny: ok, ttyl
[10:05pm] PeterThoeny: thanks for participating!!
[10:06pm] GeorgeTrubisky: its a good trick.  I use a larger font just to keep from eye strain
[10:06pm]  GeorgeTrubisky left the chat room.
[10:06pm] MahiroAndo: thanks bye!
[10:06pm]  MahiroAndo left the chat room.