Date: August 2, 2012 10:19:27 PM PDT
Subject: JerusalemMeetingLog2012x08x03.txt

[9:01pm] PeterThoeny: hi hideyo-san
[9:02pm] PeterThoeny: hmm, again only two of us
[9:04pm] HideyoImazu: that's right
[9:05pm] HideyoImazu: I was doing something else while I was waiting for you. sorry about that.
[9:06pm] PeterThoeny: no prob
[9:06pm] PeterThoeny: shall we do informal meeting or per agenda?
[9:07pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/JerusalemReleaseMeeting2012x08x03
[9:07pm] HideyoImazu: sure
[9:07pm] PeterThoeny: sure what?
[9:08pm] HideyoImazu: "shall we?" "sure"
[9:08pm] PeterThoeny: informal or per agenda?
[9:08pm] HideyoImazu: per agenda
[9:08pm] PeterThoeny: ok
[9:08pm] PeterThoeny: 1. Feature Requests for Jerusalem Release
[9:08pm] PeterThoeny: 2. Review Urgent and Not So Urgent Bugs
[9:08pm] PeterThoeny: 3. TWiki Foundation Discussion
[9:08pm] PeterThoeny: 4. Miscellaneous
[9:09pm] PeterThoeny: ------++  1. Feature Requests for Jerusalem Release
[9:09pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiFeatureProposals
[9:09pm] PeterThoeny: i have seen you posted new proposal,
[9:09pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/CgiEngineFastCgiCompatibility
[9:10pm] HideyoImazu: what do you think?
[9:11pm] PeterThoeny: i have not looked into it but when the engine was designed i think the idea
was to create a new engine for each type of cgi
[9:11pm] HideyoImazu: Foswiki has Foswiki::Engine::FastCGI but I think it's not necessary.
[9:12pm] HideyoImazu: the only problem with Engine::CGI being used with FastCGI is that
[9:12pm] HideyoImazu: it fails to get POSTed data.
[9:12pm] HideyoImazu: as far as I can see, CGI::Fast is pretty close to CGI
[9:12pm] PeterThoeny: in svn trunk there is already a FastCGIEngineContrib
[9:13pm] HideyoImazu: ok
[9:13pm] HideyoImazu: is it the same as Foswiki's?
[9:13pm] PeterThoeny: i think so
[9:14pm] PeterThoeny: but the twiki one has not been maintained for a while
[9:14pm] PeterThoeny: i think main discussion is at http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiStandAlone
[9:15pm] HideyoImazu: I believe it's cleaner to put Fast CGI-ness into twiki.fcgi rather than putting
it in Engine::FastCGI
[9:15pm] HideyoImazu: Is TWikiStandAlone still active?
[9:15pm] PeterThoeny: i do not have a strong opinion one way or the other
[9:15pm] PeterThoeny: setup just needs to be documented well
[9:16pm] PeterThoeny: it is used
[9:16pm] PeterThoeny: see http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiStandAlone#Current_Status
[9:18pm] PeterThoeny: may be you can avoid work by using existing fastcfi engine as described at
TWikiStandAlone?
[9:19pm] HideyoImazu: I haven't looked deeper into TWikiStandAlone.
[9:20pm] HideyoImazu: but to me, s minor change to Engine::CGI and writing 10 lines or so of twiki.fcgi
were enough to start playing around with Fast CGI based TWiki
[9:20pm] PeterThoeny: i recommend to study a bit more what we already have on engine
[9:20pm] PeterThoeny: is your change compatible with standard cgi?
[9:21pm] HideyoImazu: absolutely
[9:22pm] PeterThoeny: ok
[9:22pm] HideyoImazu: As you can see on my proposal, it's a very minor change to Engine::CGI
[9:23pm] PeterThoeny: i still recommend to study the existing solution, then decide if to enhance that,
or take your solution to mix cgi and fastcgi engine
[9:23pm] HideyoImazu: my proposal is in the same spirit as FastCGIEngineContrib
[9:24pm] PeterThoeny: if we go with your mixed apreach then better remove the FastCGIEngineContrib to
avoid confusion
[9:24pm] PeterThoeny: "approach"
[9:25pm] HideyoImazu: my approach is not so mixed.
[9:26pm] PeterThoeny: i have a slight preference to the component approach, e.g. separate
[9:26pm] HideyoImazu: i've just realized that the approach FastCGIEngineContrib took can be taken without
introducing Engine::FastCGI - rather introducing a minor change to Engine::CGI
[9:27pm] PeterThoeny: that way it is clear in configure: pick cgi, fast cgi, mod_perl, http etc as engine
[9:27pm] HideyoImazu: bin/twiki.fcgi will be the additional component for Fast CGI
[9:27pm] PeterThoeny: i understand
[9:28pm] HideyoImazu: even if Engine::CGI works both for plain CGI and Fast CGI, still you can pick cgi
fast cgi, mod_perl clearly in configuration.
[9:28pm] HideyoImazu: just like mod_perl is using Engine::CGI (as I understand it)
[9:29pm] PeterThoeny: i do not have a strong opinion, just document it well to avoid confusion
[9:29pm] HideyoImazu: ok
[9:30pm] PeterThoeny: that i all i have on this feature
[9:30pm] PeterThoeny: we have no other new proposals
[9:31pm] PeterThoeny: do you want to discuss any existing one?
[9:31pm] HideyoImazu: no
[9:31pm] PeterThoeny: i am currently working on two things:
[9:31pm] PeterThoeny: 1. PercentCompletePlugin
[9:32pm] HideyoImazu: Is there a feature proposal for FastCGIEngineContrib?
[9:32pm] HideyoImazu: sorry to sticking to the subject
[9:32pm] PeterThoeny: on fastcgi, that was done as part of twikistandalone
[9:33pm] HideyoImazu: ok. let me review the topic and I'll write up my thought accordingly.
[9:33pm] PeterThoeny: Author: GilmarSantosJr
[9:33pm] PeterThoeny: Date: 2008-10-02 19:45:40 -0500 (Thu, 02 Oct 2008)
[9:33pm] HideyoImazu: let's get back to your thing
[9:33pm] PeterThoeny: Item6042: add FastCGIEngineContribFiles. Item5946: Put CGI::initialize_globals()
right before the beginning of request processing. Documentation pending (going to bed now)
[9:35pm] PeterThoeny: i just forwarded you a fastcgi related email thread
[9:36pm] PeterThoeny: PercentCompletePlugin - this adds a bar with 10 items, to indicate 0% ... 100%
complete state
[9:36pm] HideyoImazu: thanks
[9:36pm] PeterThoeny: useful for twiki apps
[9:36pm] PeterThoeny: so this is a new type for twikiforms
[9:37pm] PeterThoeny: in edit mode you can click on the bar to change the percent complete state
[9:37pm] PeterThoeny: i have already implemented that in a twiki app, now i package it as a plugin for
others to use
[9:37pm] PeterThoeny: 2. SpreadSheetPlugin
[9:38pm] HideyoImazu: sounds useful
[9:38pm] PeterThoeny: i am refactoring it with hope of better performance, no functional change
[9:39pm] PeterThoeny: goal is the change the endless if() {} elsif() {} elsif() {} elsif() {} elsif() {}
with a function ref hash
[9:39pm] PeterThoeny: i only roll this out if it really helps with performance
[9:40pm] HideyoImazu: are there cases where it takes long but can be made much faster?
[9:42pm] PeterThoeny: no, i think the plugin is already very fast due to regex use, probably faster than
a conventional ll parser (such as antlr)
[9:42pm] PeterThoeny: just wondering if it can be made even faster
[9:43pm] PeterThoeny: by using hash instead of a linear scan over 100 functions with each func eval
[9:43pm] PeterThoeny: that is all i have on features
[9:43pm] PeterThoeny: ---++  2. Review Urgent and Not So Urgent Bugs
[9:44pm] PeterThoeny: http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki4/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/ReleaseBlocker
[9:44pm] PeterThoeny: i have nothing on bug front
[9:44pm] PeterThoeny: do you ave anything?
[9:44pm] HideyoImazu: I forgot to mention that I enhanced
[9:44pm] HideyoImazu: the metadata repository feature
[9:45pm] HideyoImazu: so that you can require web metadata
[9:45pm] PeterThoeny: ah, load on demand instead of always at compile time?
[9:46pm] HideyoImazu: what do you mean by "load on demand"?
[9:47pm] PeterThoeny: use Some::Module # compiles module at compile time, regardless if used or not
[9:47pm] HideyoImazu: I mean the enhancement is to require web metadata for the web to be recognized by
TWiki. Mere directory existence on DataDir is not enough.
[9:48pm] PeterThoeny: require Some::Module; # compiles module atruntime time only
[9:48pm] HideyoImazu: TWiki::Mdrepo has been read on demand - I believe
[9:48pm] PeterThoeny: ok
[9:48pm] PeterThoeny: so i misunderstood
[9:49pm] PeterThoeny: ---++  3. TWiki Foundation Discussion
[9:49pm] PeterThoeny: i think we can skip that, we should have george here for that
[9:49pm] HideyoImazu: ok
[9:49pm] PeterThoeny: ---++  4. Miscellaneous
[9:49pm] PeterThoeny: anything?
[9:49pm] HideyoImazu: no
[9:50pm] PeterThoeny: nothing from me, just mention one thing:
[9:50pm] PeterThoeny: i am currently creating extended twiki apps
[9:51pm] PeterThoeny: over 10 "tables" aka twikiforms
[9:51pm] PeterThoeny: for program tracking, project tracking, requirements tracking, task trackng etc
[9:52pm] PeterThoeny: all with usability in mind
[9:52pm] PeterThoeny: for example, membership management is a simple point and click operation
[9:52pm] HideyoImazu: sounds interesting
[9:52pm] PeterThoeny: i might write a blog describing it in generic terms
[9:53pm] PeterThoeny: do to confid agreement i can't write specific stuff
[9:53pm] HideyoImazu: ok
[9:53pm] PeterThoeny: actually, related to that i enhanced the userreports
[9:54pm] HideyoImazu: i'm overhauling my twiki installation.
[9:54pm] HideyoImazu: currently i'm working on server configuration, which led me to work on Fast CGI
[9:55pm] PeterThoeny: ok
[9:56pm] HideyoImazu: curent production servers are mod_perl. but mod_perl has a drawback - you need to
use the Perl linked with Apache.
[9:56pm] PeterThoeny: and apparently fastcfi is faster than mod_perl too
[9:57pm] HideyoImazu: yyep
[9:57pm] PeterThoeny: on selecting users in user reports, see
[9:57pm] PeterThoeny: http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki4/cgi-bin/view/TWiki/UserReports#Section_select_users
[9:59pm] HideyoImazu: ah cool
[10:00pm] PeterThoeny: time check: +60 min
[10:00pm] PeterThoeny: shall we close the meeting?
[10:00pm] HideyoImazu: yes
[10:00pm] PeterThoeny: ok
[10:00pm] PeterThoeny: nice chatting with you
[10:00pm] PeterThoeny: tty next time hideyo-san
[10:01pm] PeterThoeny: i'll post the log
[10:01pm] HideyoImazu: tty