Date: January 26, 2012 11:46:47 PM PST
Subject: JerusalemMeetingLog2012x01x27.txt

[8:51pm]  GeorgeTrubisky joined the chat room.
[8:53pm]  himazu joined the chat room.
[9:00pm] GeorgeTrubisky: hi peter, hi himazu
[9:00pm] himazu: hi george
[9:02pm] GeorgeTrubisky: so did the internet blackout receive much attention in Japan?
[9:02pm] himazu: to some extent.
[9:03pm] himazu: I cannot compare with the u.s.
[9:04pm] GeorgeTrubisky: yes, it was english only, I forgot
[9:05pm] GeorgeTrubisky: Got a fair amount of attention here…very political ofcourse
[9:06pm] himazu: and it's basically about a u.s. legislation
[9:06pm] himazu: it affects outside the u.s. though
[9:06pm] GeorgeTrubisky: yes
[9:07pm] GeorgeTrubisky: other news:  my company (Safeway) is preparing a rollout of its
first mobile app across the US.
[9:07pm] GeorgeTrubisky: used to help "clip" coupons and shop at the store
[9:08pm] GeorgeTrubisky: of course its got a huge backend set of applications, but first
time use of an app on the iOS
[9:10pm] GeorgeTrubisky: I do support of Java development at Safeway….just finished a year
long effort at implementing a Continuous Integration practice
[9:11pm] himazu: cool
[9:11pm] GeorgeTrubisky: hmmm, peter is late today
[9:11pm] himazu: the coupons displayed on iOS would be read electronically?
[9:11pm] GeorgeTrubisky: hmmm peter is late today…..
[9:12pm] GeorgeTrubisky: hmmm peter is late today
[9:12pm] GeorgeTrubisky: well, yes
[9:12pm] himazu: do they have bar code or something?
[9:13pm] GeorgeTrubisky: 3 aspects:  Clipping coupons from vendors, selecting deals, and 
personalized deals
[9:13pm] GeorgeTrubisky: no bar code
[9:13pm] GeorgeTrubisky: but you have a club card….an account with the company
[9:14pm] GeorgeTrubisky: the coupons and deals are placed on to your club card account….so
no paper
[9:14pm] himazu: I see.
[9:14pm] GeorgeTrubisky: the iOS app lets you do all that, and builds a grocery list for you
[9:15pm] GeorgeTrubisky: all implemented on a web UI first, but now as a iOS app
[9:15pm] himazu: in the near future, you will enhance the coupon system to cope with NFC?
[9:15pm] GeorgeTrubisky: NFC?
[9:15pm] himazu: near field communication
[9:16pm] GeorgeTrubisky: good question….don't know
[9:16pm] himazu: google is investing in it to a decent amount.
[9:17pm] GeorgeTrubisky: but this marketing app give the company a way to offer deals directly
to the consumer based on past sales history
[9:17pm] himazu: the latest Samsung smart phones with the latest android os has NFC equipped
[9:17pm] GeorgeTrubisky: Marketing logo:  Just for you
[9:17pm] GeorgeTrubisky: ic
[9:18pm] himazu: maybe NFC is a tangent for the coupon app.
[9:19pm] GeorgeTrubisky: I think we are using google wallet for NFC come to think about it….for
payments
[9:19pm] himazu: when the club card is NFC'ed, then your app will automatically "support" it.
[9:21pm] himazu: how common is google wallet these days?
[9:21pm] GeorgeTrubisky: it requires some physical device for the communication, correct?…..so
I think that's why its only being used with smart phones and google wallet
[9:21pm] himazu: NFC requires NFC readers for sure
[9:22pm] GeorgeTrubisky: that's a good question.  What I can say is I was just talking to
an associate at work today about the google wallet and the installation of NFC readers for
the POS system
[9:23pm] himazu: in some parts of the word including Japan and Hong Kong, quite a few shops
have NFC readers but they are not
[9:23pm] himazu: compatible with
[9:23pm] GeorgeTrubisky: reader is a physical plug in to the pin pad/mag swipe devised used today
[9:23pm] himazu: the NFC built in the Samsung and other smart phones
[9:24pm] GeorgeTrubisky: yes, that what my associated was explaining to me today over lunch
[9:24pm] GeorgeTrubisky: Safeway is involved with lots of payment type of projects
[9:25pm] GeorgeTrubisky: some are regulation driven…new government rules in the area after the
big banking bust
[9:26pm] himazu: somewhat similar situation in the financial industry
[9:26pm] GeorgeTrubisky: but the majority are profit driven….reducing cost be how payments
are routed through the banking system and providers like visa
[9:26pm] GeorgeTrubisky: reeducating cost by how...
[9:26pm] himazu: after the subprime fiasco, more regulation, which leads to more IT work to
cope with the new regulation
[9:26pm] GeorgeTrubisky: yes
[9:27pm] himazu: but the fincial sector is not making as much as before,
[9:27pm] GeorgeTrubisky: but our club card is a true marketing app….Safeway is a what they call
a HI/LOW retailer
[9:27pm] himazu: so we are not paid as much but more work.
[9:27pm] GeorgeTrubisky: lol
[9:28pm] himazu: maybe peter cannot make it today
[9:29pm] GeorgeTrubisky: yes, so unlike him
[9:29pm] GeorgeTrubisky: I see him log into the channel
[9:30pm] GeorgeTrubisky: well, I spend a couple days working with him on the new 5.1.1 release
not long ago
[9:30pm] GeorgeTrubisky: let me send him a text
[9:31pm] PeterThoeny: i am very sorry to be late!
[9:31pm] PeterThoeny: but now i am here!
[9:31pm] PeterThoeny: hi george and imazu-san
[9:31pm] PeterThoeny: reading log...
[9:31pm] GeorgeTrubisky: hi peter…glad you could make it
[9:32pm] himazu: hi peter
[9:32pm] GeorgeTrubisky: all is well with you?
[9:33pm] PeterThoeny: yes, all ok
[9:33pm] GeorgeTrubisky: himazu and I were just chatting
[9:33pm] PeterThoeny: yes i see
[9:33pm] GeorgeTrubisky: noticed about 1200 downloads of 5.1.1 since it was released
[9:33pm] PeterThoeny: shall we keep this meeting informal?
[9:34pm] GeorgeTrubisky: sure
[9:34pm] PeterThoeny: on release, we did good work!
[9:34pm] PeterThoeny: very stable again
[9:34pm] GeorgeTrubisky: thanks for the nice comment on the TWiki blog
[9:34pm] PeterThoeny: a day after release i created the vmware image
[9:35pm] PeterThoeny: your very welcome
[9:35pm] PeterThoeny: downloads of vmware image also has an up trend
[9:35pm] PeterThoeny:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/twiki/files/TWiki%20for%20all%20Platforms/TWiki-5.1.1/TWiki-VM-5.1.1-1.zip/stats/timeline?dates=2012-01-15+to+2012-01-25
[9:36pm] PeterThoeny: notice the big dip on 16th
[9:36pm] PeterThoeny: that was on the blackout day
[9:37pm] PeterThoeny: himazu-san: did you follow the sopa/pipa story in the usa?
[9:37pm] GeorgeTrubisky: yes…so VM image, what is that exactly?  preinstalled TWiki?
[9:37pm] PeterThoeny: yes, twiki-5.1.1 preinstalled on centos 5.7 (i think)
[9:37pm] himazu: yes
[9:38pm] PeterThoeny: many companies standardized on vmware in data center
[9:38pm] PeterThoeny: so they like to use a ready made image
[9:39pm] GeorgeTrubisky: yes.  The VM is for cents 5.7 that includes TWiki, correct?
[9:39pm] PeterThoeny: i blogged about the twiki.org blackout at
http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Blog/BlogEntry201201x2
[9:39pm] GeorgeTrubisky: centos
[9:39pm] PeterThoeny: correct
[9:39pm] GeorgeTrubisky: yes, I was reading that
[9:39pm] PeterThoeny: clay shirkey's tedtalk is very illuminating
[9:40pm] PeterThoeny: the forbes story is worth reading,
http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrydownes/2012/01/25/who-really-stopped-sopa-and-why/
[9:41pm] PeterThoeny: power of the crowd
[9:41pm] GeorgeTrubisky: yes!
[9:41pm] PeterThoeny: remonds me of starfish and spider concept
[9:41pm] PeterThoeny: s/remonds/reminds/
[9:41pm]  himazu left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[9:42pm] GeorgeTrubisky: ops, lost himazu
[9:42pm] PeterThoeny: hm
[9:42pm] PeterThoeny: i wanted to ask him about irc alternatives
[9:43pm] PeterThoeny: pete jones reported a bug
[9:43pm] PeterThoeny: http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki4/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/Item6840
[9:43pm] PeterThoeny: i fixed it yesterday
[9:44pm] PeterThoeny: do you have any feature you'd like to discuss?
[9:45pm] GeorgeTrubisky: ah…no.  Been pretty busy since the release
[9:45pm] GeorgeTrubisky: my wife had been out of town a lot helping her parents that have
been in and out of hospital
[9:46pm] GeorgeTrubisky: so I've been holding down the home front (sort of)
[9:46pm] GeorgeTrubisky: she does a lot I'm finding out!
[9:47pm] GeorgeTrubisky: how about you?  anything TWiki to discuss beside the bug?
[9:47pm] PeterThoeny: i wish your parents-in-laws are recovering
[9:47pm] GeorgeTrubisky: thanks.  Just old age I'm afraid
[9:47pm] PeterThoeny: well, i'd like to brainstorm a bit
[9:47pm] GeorgeTrubisky: ok
[9:47pm] PeterThoeny: on scaling twiki with distributed system
[9:48pm] PeterThoeny: hideyo-san does that at ms
[9:48pm] PeterThoeny: i added some code early on for data replication
[9:48pm] PeterThoeny: but i never rolled it out
[9:48pm] GeorgeTrubisky: hmmm.  He should be part of this discussion
[9:49pm] PeterThoeny: hideyo-san discovered the code and enhanced it
[9:49pm] PeterThoeny: yes
[9:49pm] PeterThoeny: he stated that he wants to take this back into the core
[9:49pm] PeterThoeny: which is good
[9:50pm] GeorgeTrubisky: yes…, but?
[9:50pm] PeterThoeny: the replication is per web and happens one way only
[9:50pm]  himazu joined the chat room.
[9:50pm] PeterThoeny: welcome back
[9:50pm] PeterThoeny: we are now brainstorming about distributed twiki system
[9:51pm] PeterThoeny: i am explaining to george the current spec you are using at ms
[9:51pm] himazu: i was disconected for some reason
[9:51pm] himazu: ok
[9:52pm] PeterThoeny: himazu:  here is what i said earlier:
[9:52pm] PeterThoeny: PeterThoeny:  i blogged about the twiki.org blackout at
http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Blog/BlogEntry201201x2
[9:52pm] PeterThoeny: clay shirkey's tedtalk is very illuminating
[9:52pm] PeterThoeny: the forbes story is worth reading,
http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrydownes/2012/01/25/who-really-stopped-sopa-and-why/
[9:52pm] PeterThoeny: eom
[9:52pm] PeterThoeny: back to distributed system
[9:53pm] PeterThoeny: so, let's say the folks in london work mainly on web a, b, c
[9:53pm] PeterThoeny: and folks in new york work mainly on webs d, e, f
[9:53pm] PeterThoeny: each web has a home base
[9:54pm] PeterThoeny: so home base for webs a, b, c is in london
[9:54pm] PeterThoeny: those webs are replicated one way to other sites
[9:54pm] PeterThoeny: view links are always local
[9:55pm] PeterThoeny: edit/attach links are local (if web is in home base) or point to a
remove site (web's home base)
[9:56pm] himazu: and you can include and link other webs regardless of their home location
[9:56pm] PeterThoeny: yep
[9:56pm] PeterThoeny: so this allows to fail safe and easy data replication which is one way only
[9:56pm] PeterThoeny: so no merge issues
[9:56pm] himazu: yep
[9:57pm] PeterThoeny: question to himazu-san: do user ask for two-way replication, e.g. view
and edit local?
[9:57pm] himazu: no
[9:58pm] himazu: partly because not many users understand the replication
[9:58pm] himazu: also because our internal network is decent
[9:59pm] PeterThoeny: is there sometimes a confusion? "i work with tokyo twiki, why is the
urls suddenly in new york"
[9:59pm] himazu: yes, there is.
[10:00pm] PeterThoeny: do you have some visual indication, such as different skin/color scheme
per site?
[10:00pm] himazu: no
[10:00pm] PeterThoeny: here is an idea:
[10:01pm] PeterThoeny: twiki already has a pluggable storage backend
[10:01pm] himazu: as such, users don't notice he is brought to ny.
[10:01pm] PeterThoeny: we could create a backend that uses a system that has replication built
into the system
[10:02pm] PeterThoeny: this could be done with a relational database backend
[10:02pm] PeterThoeny: but i think there are better ways
[10:02pm] PeterThoeny: i am thinking of hadoop or cloudera
[10:03pm] PeterThoeny: imagine if pages and revisions of pages are stored in hdfs, hadoop
distributed file system
[10:04pm] PeterThoeny: the magic to replicate content would be taken care of
[10:04pm] PeterThoeny: at a higher level we would need to worry about merging simultaneous edits
[10:05pm] PeterThoeny: twiki already supports simultaneous edits with 3-way merge (sort of)
[10:05pm] PeterThoeny: this is for local topic
[10:05pm] PeterThoeny: the same concept can be used across sites
[10:06pm] PeterThoeny: say user a edits rev 6 of a topic in ny
[10:06pm] PeterThoeny: user t edits same topic in tokyo
[10:07pm] PeterThoeny: user a saves topic, makes rev 7
[10:07pm] PeterThoeny: user t saves topic
[10:07pm] PeterThoeny: system sees rev 7, does a merge and creates rev 8
[10:07pm] PeterThoeny: all transparently in background
[10:07pm] PeterThoeny: what do you think?
[10:08pm] GeorgeTrubisky: reading about apache hadoop
[10:09pm] himazu: does hadoop work well with long distance replication?
[10:09pm] PeterThoeny: i think so
[10:09pm] PeterThoeny: i have never used it, need to study more
[10:09pm] GeorgeTrubisky: achieves reliability by replicating the data across multiple hosts,
and hence does not require RAID storage on hosts
[10:10pm] PeterThoeny: yep
[10:10pm] PeterThoeny: hadoop is very resilient
[10:11pm] PeterThoeny: in any case, i think it is good to have hideyo-san's replication magic
merged into twiki
[10:11pm] PeterThoeny: what timeframe do you have in mind for this?
[10:12pm] PeterThoeny: time check: +72 min
[10:12pm] himazu: by jul this year
[10:12pm] PeterThoeny: shall we continue until +90 min, e.g. 18 more min?
[10:13pm] himazu: I need to integrate my local enhancements to the twiki core as much as
possible around that time.
[10:13pm] GeorgeTrubisky: sure
[10:13pm] himazu: sure
[10:13pm] PeterThoeny: let me know if you have questions on latest code
[10:13pm] PeterThoeny: once you start the merge
[10:13pm] himazu: I will
[10:14pm] PeterThoeny: another question for himazu-san: what about irc alternatives?
[10:15pm] PeterThoeny: thank you for sending the e-mail with lingr.com suggestion
[10:15pm] himazu: I found a web based chat system and sent you the URL of the  site
[10:15pm] himazu: have you tried that?
[10:15pm] PeterThoeny: no, i will
[10:16pm] PeterThoeny: it probably can work for us, but it requires people to sign up for
yet another tool
[10:16pm] PeterThoeny: i am a bit concerned about raising the barrier to participate
[10:16pm] PeterThoeny: most techies are already on skype and irc
[10:16pm] himazu: it can use your facebook account
[10:17pm] himazu: skype is not quite an alternative to irc.
[10:17pm] PeterThoeny: is it possible to define a channel and navigate to that channel like
on irc?
[10:17pm] himazu: since you cannot have an open channel to which anybody can participate on
their initiative
[10:18pm] PeterThoeny: with skype you can create a chat group, but not sure if you can give it
a name so that anybody can join the group
[10:18pm] PeterThoeny: ah, so this is not possible
[10:18pm] PeterThoeny: in this case skype is not a good option
[10:18pm] himazu: as far as my research goes, you cannot
[10:19pm] PeterThoeny: can you do that with lingr.com?
[10:19pm] PeterThoeny: what about google hangout?
[10:19pm] himazu: yes
[10:21pm] PeterThoeny: has anyone tried google hangout?
[10:21pm] PeterThoeny: i have not
[10:21pm] himazu: i don't know for sur
[10:21pm] himazu: but is it possible to create an open hangout?
[10:21pm] himazu: to which anybody can join
[10:21pm] himazu: me either
[10:22pm] himazu: I'm using iPad via my personal 3G connection.
[10:22pm] himazu: I wonder if I can participate google hangout by that
[10:23pm] himazu: how about creating twiki_release channel/room on lingr.com
[10:23pm] himazu: and try using it
[10:23pm] PeterThoeny: hangout is video
[10:23pm] PeterThoeny: which might be overkill
[10:24pm] PeterThoeny: ah, hangout is limited to 10 people
[10:25pm] PeterThoeny: "Messenger (formerly: Huddle) is a feature available to Android,
iPhone, and SMS devices for communicating through instant messaging within circles.
Additionally, you can now share photos in Messenger between your circles"
[10:26pm] himazu: I suspect it's for a predefined set of people.
[10:26pm] PeterThoeny: likely because it is based on g+ circles
[10:26pm] PeterThoeny: hmm, not so easy to find a suitable replacement
[10:26pm] PeterThoeny: for irc
[10:27pm] himazu: that's why lingr.com looks interesting
[10:28pm] GeorgeTrubisky: btw…quick read of hadoop calls out designed for very large files….
design can be a bottle net for supporting huge number of files, especially small ones
[10:29pm] PeterThoeny: understood himazu-san
[10:29pm] PeterThoeny: let me check it out
[10:29pm] GeorgeTrubisky: data files for TWiki webs would be small
[10:29pm] PeterThoeny: george: that could be a showstopper due to many small files in twiki
[10:30pm] GeorgeTrubisky: s/bottle net/bottle neck
[10:30pm] GeorgeTrubisky: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Hadoop
[10:30pm] PeterThoeny: there are other big table concepts, such as cloudera
[10:30pm] PeterThoeny: time check: +90 min
[10:31pm] PeterThoeny: homework for me: study hadoop
[10:31pm] GeorgeTrubisky: motivation to work on build script for me
[10:32pm] PeterThoeny: ok
[10:32pm] PeterThoeny: shall we close the meeting?
[10:32pm] GeorgeTrubisky: a pleasure talking with both of you.  yes, lets close
[10:33pm] himazu: yes
[10:33pm] GeorgeTrubisky: good bye
[10:33pm]  GeorgeTrubisky left the chat room. (Quit: Leaving...)
[10:33pm] PeterThoeny: ttyl!
[10:34pm] himazu: bye
[10:51pm]  himazu left the chat room. (Remote host closed the connection)