Date: August 1, 2011 11:09:34 AM PDT
Subject: IstanbulMeetingLog2011x08x01.txt

[09:54am]  DrRetro joined the chat room.
[09:55am] DrRetro: Ha! Pünktlich!
[09:58am]  GeorgeTrubisky joined the chat room.
[10:01am] PeterThoeny: servus DrRetro / jens
[10:01am] PeterThoeny: hi george
[10:02am] DrRetro: Hallo Peter
[10:02am] DrRetro: hi George!
[10:02am] PeterThoeny: welcome to the release meeting
[10:02am] GeorgeTrubisky: hi peter
[10:02am] PeterThoeny: how is your vm installation coming along?
[10:03am]  timothe joined the chat room.
[10:03am] PeterThoeny: hi timothe!
[10:03am]  ChengappaCB joined the chat room.
[10:03am] PeterThoeny: hi chengappa!
[10:03am] DrRetro: well quiet difficult at the moment because there some issues with
the LWP and the CPAN core i can't resolve at the moment. but i'm looking forward to
resolve it this week.
[10:03am] ChengappaCB: Hi Peter !
[10:05am] PeterThoeny: http: //twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/TWiki/HowToInstallCpanModules
explains how to install cpan modules
[10:05am] PeterThoeny: but many times you can simply use yum to install perl modules
[10:05am] PeterThoeny: such as:  yum install perl-LWP
[10:06am] PeterThoeny: we have good turnout for the (probably last) istanbul release meeting
[10:06am] PeterThoeny: let's get started
[10:06am] PeterThoeny: proposed agenda:
[10:06am] PeterThoeny: 1. TWiki-5.1 Release Coordination
[10:06am] PeterThoeny: 2. Feature Requests for Jerusalem Release
[10:06am] PeterThoeny: 3. Review Urgent and Not So Urgent Bugs
[10:06am] PeterThoeny: 4. Miscellaneous
[10:06am] PeterThoeny: minutes at http: //twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/IstanbulReleaseMeeting2011x08x01
[10:07am] PeterThoeny: anything to add?
[10:07am] PeterThoeny: if not we can start
[10:07am] PeterThoeny: ---++ 1. TWiki-5.1 Release Coordination
[10:07am] PeterThoeny: george?
[10:08am] GeorgeTrubisky: just a minute
[10:09am] GeorgeTrubisky: sorry, ready
[10:09am] PeterThoeny: also, since we have some new folks, could everybody give a one line
intro? use twiki for how long, what company (use at company or not), goals for twiki
[10:10am] GeorgeTrubisky: I'm the volunteer release manager for twiki
[10:10am] ChengappaCB: I'm a novice enthusiast for Twiki
[10:10am] ChengappaCB: Installed 4.1.2... now upgrading to 5.0.2
[10:11am] ChengappaCB: zero programming
[10:11am] DrRetro: I'm a Sysadmin who want to set up a corporate wiki in our company
[10:11am] timothe: a few years, personal use,  provide fixes & extensions
[10:12am] PeterThoeny: i started twiki 13 years ago and have deployed it in many orgs
[10:12am] PeterThoeny: my goal:  build up the community in a friendly & professional way
[10:13am] GeorgeTrubisky: So the 5.1 release is scheduled to be built this weekend.  Peter,
how is the backup plugin work going?
[10:13am] PeterThoeny: i will have some long night this week to finish the plugin
[10:14am] GeorgeTrubisky: do you want to push out another week?
[10:14am] GeorgeTrubisky: build weekend of the 13th and 14th?
[10:14am] PeterThoeny: at this point i'd like to stick to the release schedule this coming weekend
[10:14am] GeorgeTrubisky: ok
[10:15am] PeterThoeny: i think we are pretty much ready except for some doc udpates (rel notes,
history...) and the backup plugin
[10:15am] GeorgeTrubisky: that's its for me on the 5.1 release coordination
[10:15am] PeterThoeny: i feel we will have a pretty solid release
[10:15am] timothe: I don't see that anyone has taken Item 6776
[10:16am] ChengappaCB: I didn't attend the previous meeting... sorry if I am butting in...I am on
my way to installing 5.0.2.... should I wait for 5.1 instead ?
[10:16am] timothe: Also, is the plan to take the Rollback attachment feature?  If so, I've posted
some concerns
[10:16am] PeterThoeny: http: //develop.twiki.org/~twiki4/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/Item6776 - WYSIWYG
initial UNDO reveals TML
[10:17am] timothe: That's the one - "reveals" - actually worse, it puts the non-technical user
into editing it ...
[10:17am] GeorgeTrubisky: I would wait until 5.1
[10:18am] PeterThoeny: thanks timothe for filing the bug
[10:18am] PeterThoeny: did you look into what causes the bug?
[10:19am] PeterThoeny: i agree that Item6776 is an important one, but should we delay the release
because of this?
[10:20am] timothe: No, haven't investigated - not my area, and I have my hands full.  I know it
has some history (similar misbehavior) - it looks like whatever bandaid was applied was
ineffective/fragile.  It has something to do with how TML is stuffed into the editor's buffer as
an "automated edit".
[10:20am] PeterThoeny: ok
[10:21am] PeterThoeny: personally i do not think we should hold the release for this bug
[10:21am] timothe: That's my question.  From a user perspective, it's really bad behavior.  If it
were my release, I would delay - unless there's some other crisis-mode driver for releasing sooner.
[10:22am] PeterThoeny: well, the bug in this wysiwyg editor survived for 3 years already
[10:23am] timothe: It's your release and your reputation.  You have my input.
[10:23am] PeterThoeny: yes, appreciated!
[10:23am] timothe: So, what's the story with rollback-attachment and this release?
[10:23am] ChengappaCB: IMHO if the bug CAN be fixed in a matter of days, then the release should
be delayed
[10:23am] PeterThoeny: ok, let;s discuss this
[10:23am] PeterThoeny: http: //twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/RollbackAttachmentVersion
[10:24am] PeterThoeny: ok, back to 6776
[10:24am] PeterThoeny: is anybody volunteering to investigate and fix?
[10:26am] PeterThoeny: we can't drag out the release if we do not have an owner
[10:26am]  adubz joined the chat room.
[10:27am] timothe: First step:  Who has the expertise?
[10:27am] adubz: hi all
[10:27am] adubz: i do i do
[10:27am] PeterThoeny: hi adubz, welcome to the release meeting
[10:27am] adubz: thanks
[10:27am] adubz: and hi
[10:27am] PeterThoeny: we are talking about what what bugs/features should be squeezed into the
5.1.0 release
[10:29am] PeterThoeny: adubz:  i like your attitude and confidence "-)
[10:29am] PeterThoeny:
[10:29am] adubz: not a problem
[10:29am] PeterThoeny: we discuss http: //develop.twiki.org/~twiki4/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/Item6776 -
WYSIWYG initial UNDO reveals TML
[10:29am] PeterThoeny: and wonder who can investigate and fix
[10:30am] adubz: in my experience no one uses WYSIWYG type editors in the environments i use twiki
[10:30am] adubz: oh this is a security flaw
[10:31am] timothe: Since no one on-line is volunteering, perhaps Peter can take an action to look
for a volunteer off line.
[10:31am] DrRetro: it's only a suggest but maybe it would be easier to lock for normal users the
CTRL+Z...? Or perhaps all the Keyboard-Shortcuts for the normal users...?
[10:32am] timothe: WYSIWYG is important to getting TWiki accepted in the non-techno-geek
environments.  (Also, it's not just ^z, clicking UNDO does the same(
[10:32am] PeterThoeny: disabling undo would be a pragmatic workaround fix until really fixed
[10:32am] DrRetro: Oh, ok, THAT could be a problem...
[10:32am] DrRetro: PeterThoeny:  Or that...
[10:33am] PeterThoeny: george, what is your take on 6776?
[10:34am] PeterThoeny: i'll ask on twiki-dev to find an owner for 6776
[10:34am] PeterThoeny: time check:  +34 min, 26 min to go
[10:35am] GeorgeTrubisky: The bug is currently classifed as priority "normal".  By that definition
it should not be a release showstopper
[10:35am] PeterThoeny: yes, that is by classification
[10:35am] PeterThoeny: your take, should this be a release blocker?
[10:36am] timothe: I would be happy to mark it "urgent" - I almost did when I wrote it (as noted
in the report).
[10:37am] GeorgeTrubisky: no
[10:37am] PeterThoeny: ok
[10:38am] PeterThoeny: ideally we should find an owner and fix before the release deadline
[10:38am] PeterThoeny: if not we should not delay
[10:38am] PeterThoeny: i'll ask for owner
[10:38am] PeterThoeny: back to rollback
[10:39am] PeterThoeny: http: //twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/RollbackAttachmentVersion
[10:39am] timothe: I stumbled across that one a few days ago.  If the plan is to include in the
release (sounded as though it was), I have some technical issues.
[10:40am] timothe: In the state as described, it is not ready for release.  But it is a valuable
feature.  So it comes down to priority and will Peter address them?
[10:40am] PeterThoeny: well, the code for feature was posted just a day or so after the code
freeze
[10:41am] PeterThoeny: and i think the code is based on 4.3 release, not the trunk
[10:41am] PeterThoeny: and posted as files, not diffs
[10:42am] PeterThoeny: so there is some work involved to move to trunk and test
[10:42am] PeterThoeny: i do not have the time to do that before the release
[10:42am] PeterThoeny: but foremost, it was posted after code freeze
[10:43am] timothe: I'm fine with not including it - the wiki text led me to believe that the intent
was to squeeze it in under the wire.  That's not OK in the current state for the reasons I listed.
[10:43am] timothe: If the call is to postpone, we can move on.
[10:44am] GeorgeTrubisky: postpone it
[10:44am] PeterThoeny: ok, agreed
[10:45am] PeterThoeny: on translations, we got some language udpates
[10:45am] PeterThoeny: about 5
[10:45am] PeterThoeny: that means 11 are still pending
[10:45am] PeterThoeny: i'll ping the translators again
[10:46am] PeterThoeny: on release day, i propose we give it until wed to decide if we delay by one week
[10:47am] PeterThoeny: mainly based on progress of pending work:  doc update, backup plugin, security fix
[10:47am] GeorgeTrubisky: ok
[10:47am] PeterThoeny: we did not talk about security fix
[10:47am] GeorgeTrubisky: security fix?
[10:48am] PeterThoeny: there is one report of a medium prio security fix, i plan to fix and include
before release
[10:48am] PeterThoeny: so one more item on me
[10:49am] GeorgeTrubisky: ok
[10:49am] PeterThoeny: time check:  +49 min
[10:49am] PeterThoeny: anything else on release?
[10:50am] GeorgeTrubisky: No
[10:50am] PeterThoeny: ---++ 2. Feature Requests for Jerusalem Release
[10:50am] timothe: I had one last item:   I posted a feature for Task Framework support in configure -
two very small patches.  After freeze, but ready.
[10:51am] PeterThoeny: timothe's code is quality
[10:51am] timothe: I expect to put out the TFW extension within the next month or so, so it would be
good if we could avoid having to patch the core.  But it's your call.
[10:51am] PeterThoeny: timothe:  how much risky do you think if we add these patches?
[10:52am] PeterThoeny: in terms of side effects or bugs?
[10:52am] PeterThoeny: additional docs needed?
[10:53am] timothe: Should be very low risk - the code has been running in my development environment
for several months, and you have to go out of your way to access the features.  Normal distribution
should not traverse those paths, as described in ConfigureSupportForTaskFramework
[10:53am] PeterThoeny: did you test on trunk?
[10:53am] PeterThoeny: i mean svn trunk
[10:54am] timothe: Yes, I built on trunk, did an SVN UP just before I wrote the proposal.  It's all 
configure internals, no doc (but the proposal has plenty of doc  a long page describing the effects 
of a 7 and 13 line code change)
[10:54am] PeterThoeny: now we have the data to decide
[10:54am] PeterThoeny: george?
[10:55am] GeorgeTrubisky: go ahead and check into the trunk
[10:55am] PeterThoeny: btw, great work you do timothe on task framework!
[10:56am] PeterThoeny: ok, we have green light for timothe's patches
[10:56am] PeterThoeny: time check:  +56 min
[10:56am] timothe: Thanks.  The task framework has evolved since I last updated the doc page - but it
will be exciting for folks.  Just have >my< release checklist to finish
[10:57am] PeterThoeny: on mechanics, who does the checkin?
[10:57am] GeorgeTrubisky: peter i have a hard stop at the hour.  Send me a note wednesday on the
rollback plugin status.  Thanks
[10:57am] PeterThoeny: yes, i will george
[10:57am] GeorgeTrubisky: thanks, bye
[10:57am]  GeorgeTrubisky left the chat room.
[10:58am] DrRetro: sry i have to leave in some minutes too. but i will read the rest later.
[10:58am] PeterThoeny: ok, let's wrap up in a few min
[10:58am] timothe: Would appreciate it if as usual you'd do the mechanics.  The patch on the proposal
was against rev 21843, so it's pretty current.
[10:58am] PeterThoeny: ok, i'll do the checkin into trunk
[10:59am] timothe: Thanks.  Sorry to have taken so much time, but I thought the items were important.
[10:59am] PeterThoeny: no, that's good
[10:59am] PeterThoeny: we talked about urgent bug items
[11:00am] PeterThoeny: anything else? misc stuff?
[11:00am] timothe: Will somone communicate the Rollback decision to Peter Jones?
[11:00am] PeterThoeny: yes, i will
[11:00am] PeterThoeny: time:  +60 min
[11:00am] timothe: I'm done.
[11:00am] PeterThoeny: right on time
[11:01am] DrRetro: it's easy to start the vm in a Virtual Box (not a VMWare stuff) so it should be
noted somewhere?
[11:01am] PeterThoeny: thanks all for participating!
[11:01am] PeterThoeny: twiki-5.1.0 will be very cool!
[11:01am] PeterThoeny: DrRetro:  please feel free to update the DownloadTWikiVM page directly
[11:02am] DrRetro: PeterThoeny:  i will try it
[11:02am] PeterThoeny: better to edit the article, e.g. not just a comment at the bottom
[11:02am]  timothe left the chat room.
[11:02am] PeterThoeny: i'll post the minutes
[11:02am] ChengappaCB: OK. All the best for 5.1.0 Peter !
[11:03am] PeterThoeny: next time we need to think about advocacy
[11:03am] PeterThoeny: and about release focus of new release