Date: June 21, 2010 11:14:45 AM PDT
Subject: IstanbulMeetingLog2010x06x21.txt

[09: 57am]  peterthoeny joined the room.
[10: 00am]  SopanShewale joined the chat room.
[10: 00am] SopanShewale: Good Morning Peter
[10: 03am] peterthoeny: hi sopan
[10: 03am] peterthoeny: brb
[10: 10am] peterthoeny: ...back
[10: 12am] peterthoeny: hi sopan
[10: 12am] peterthoeny: we should help out patrick
[10: 13am] peterthoeny: i'll e-mail him later
[10: 15am] SopanShewale: Hi Peter - good morning
[10: 15am] peterthoeny: good evening sopan
[10: 15am] SopanShewale: PeterJones can't join today .. seems he is stuck in busy schedule
[10: 15am] peterthoeny: oh, ok
[10: 15am] peterthoeny: http: //twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/IstanbulReleaseMeeting2010x06x21
[10: 15am] peterthoeny: is release meeting page
[10: 16am] peterthoeny: proposed agenda:
[10: 16am] peterthoeny: # 1. Feature Requests for Istanbul Release
[10: 16am] peterthoeny: # 2. Review Urgent Bugs
[10: 16am] peterthoeny: # 4. Miscellaneous
[10: 16am] peterthoeny: anything to add?
[10: 17am] peterthoeny: if not, let's start
[10: 17am] peterthoeny: ---++ 1. Feature Requests for Istanbul Release
[10: 17am] peterthoeny: http: //twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiFeatureProposals
[10: 18am] peterthoeny: we have two in feedback period:
[10: 18am] peterthoeny: 1. http: //twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/RollbackAttachmentVersion
[10: 19am] peterthoeny: peter jones commited to this feature
[10: 19am] SopanShewale: ok...rollback - Peter is not in the meeting-do you the status?
[10: 19am] peterthoeny: i'll ping him
[10: 19am] SopanShewale: yes.. i think we should ping him
[10: 19am] peterthoeny: http: //twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/SetAndGetVariables
[10: 19am] peterthoeny: i proposed this feature
[10: 19am] SopanShewale: reading
[10: 20am] peterthoeny: i was with a client and had a need for more advanced variable set/get
than the spreadsheetplugin offers
[10: 20am] SopanShewale: yup.. good proposal..very much required
[10: 21am] SopanShewale: Ideally - we should have TT extension to TWiki
[10: 21am] peterthoeny: the spreadsheetplugin's CALC is not a registered function, e.g.
evaluation order is not inside-out like regular twiki variables
[10: 21am] SopanShewale: TT-template toolkit
[10: 21am] peterthoeny: i looked into tt
[10: 22am] peterthoeny: i like the functionality very much
[10: 22am] peterthoeny: we can't take tt as is into twiki
[10: 22am] peterthoeny: because it has access to file system
[10: 22am] SopanShewale: ok
[10: 23am] peterthoeny: so from security perspective we need to add a sandbox to make tt safe
for twiki
[10: 23am] peterthoeny: alternatively create some functionality in twiki along the lines of tt
[10: 23am] peterthoeny: or, a layer on top of tt
[10: 23am] peterthoeny: so, these options:
[10: 24am] peterthoeny: 1. offer tt on top of a sandbox to make tt safe
[10: 25am] peterthoeny: 2. create twiki variables syntax (%FOREACH{}% ...) and translate to tt
syntax, again using sandbox
[10: 25am] peterthoeny: 3. create twiki variables syntax (%FOREACH{}% ...) and implement
natively in twiki core or plugin
[10: 25am] peterthoeny: i will look into more details which one makes more sense
[10: 26am] peterthoeny: what is yiur take?
[10: 26am] peterthoeny: s/yiur/your/
[10: 26am] SopanShewale: need some time to digests this... offcourse i like the way tt works
[10: 27am] SopanShewale: TT' stuff should have come much before wysiwyg
[10: 28am] peterthoeny: we already have %TMPL: DEF% and %TMPL: P% but it is very limited
[10: 28am] peterthoeny: i don;t think we should enhance this existing syntax
[10: 29am] SopanShewale: implementing something in core would be helpful
[10: 29am] peterthoeny: the template language could be core, or if we ship plugin with core we
could implement as plugin
[10: 30am] peterthoeny: like tableplugin or spreadsheetplugin
[10: 30am] peterthoeny: in twiki you can assume to have %TABLE{}% and %CALC{}%
[10: 31am] peterthoeny: in same way you can assume to have %SET{}%, %FOREACH%, etc
[10: 31am] peterthoeny: if implemented as plugin
[10: 31am] SopanShewale: i think it should go in core..like %DATE%
[10: 31am] peterthoeny: for modularization i slightly prefer the plugin approach
[10: 32am] peterthoeny: putting in core would make docs more consistent
[10: 32am] peterthoeny: creating as plugin would allow use before core release
[10: 33am] peterthoeny: ah, that last point is important one
[10: 33am] SopanShewale: may be best way then - create plugin..and in future..depending on 
performance/requirement - we shift to core
[10: 33am] peterthoeny: we can implement first as plugin, and once stable we could move into core
[10: 33am] peterthoeny: if we decide to do
[10: 33am] peterthoeny: yes
[10: 34am] peterthoeny: on SET/GET persistency
[10: 34am] peterthoeny: i think this can be very powerful
[10: 34am] SopanShewale: yup
[10: 34am] peterthoeny: for example, you could store test results persistently every day in a variable
[10: 35am] peterthoeny: or you could create a search result, and page through results
[10: 35am] SopanShewale: right
[10: 35am] peterthoeny: by assigning search result into a persistent variable
[10: 35am] SopanShewale: may be pagination would be easier?
[10: 36am] peterthoeny: yes, for search an offset="" parameter would be easier
[10: 37am] SopanShewale: ok
[10: 37am] SopanShewale: my stake... may be better you start.. i can join with you while
developing this stuff
[10: 37am] SopanShewale: in later statge
[10: 38am] peterthoeny: yes
[10: 38am] peterthoeny: please look my last comment in SetAndGetVariables
[10: 38am] peterthoeny: wondering on best strategy for persistent variables
[10: 38am] peterthoeny: i kind of like persistent="on" parameter to SET
[10: 39am] peterthoeny: but issue is GET, it has performance issue if a disk check needs to
be done each time
[10: 39am] peterthoeny: any idea
[10: 39am] peterthoeny: ?
[10: 39am] SopanShewale: yup.. .need better caching mechanism
[10: 40am] SopanShewale: right now - not able to think any solution...
[10: 40am] peterthoeny: ok
[10: 41am] SopanShewale: let me spend some time on this.. something will come out
[10: 41am] peterthoeny: *Feature Proposals Ready For Release Meeting*
[10: 41am] peterthoeny: we have none in this bucket
[10: 41am] SopanShewale: ok...
[10: 41am] peterthoeny: *Accepted proposals waiting to be implemented*
[10: 41am] peterthoeny: we have many many in this bucket
[10: 42am] SopanShewale: yes..many
[10: 42am] peterthoeny: *Feature Proposals under Investigation*
[10: 42am] SopanShewale: btw - on JQuery? do you want me to raise the proposal.. or just bug
is fine
[10: 42am] peterthoeny: we have even more in this bucket
[10: 43am] peterthoeny: just bug is fine for jquery
[10: 43am] SopanShewale: because JQuery - is just improvement/upgrade in the exiting plugin
[10: 43am] SopanShewale: ok
[10: 43am] peterthoeny: upgrade to latest version is no-brainer
[10: 43am] SopanShewale: ok
[10: 43am] peterthoeny: please pick low hanging fruit features and implement
[10: 44am] peterthoeny: so that we have more dev activity
[10: 44am] peterthoeny: last two month have been good
[10: 44am] peterthoeny: we should build up on the momentum
[10: 44am] peterthoeny: i am trying to constantly improve things
[10: 44am] peterthoeny: especially docs
[10: 44am] peterthoeny: i will also focus more on features
[10: 45am] SopanShewale: sure - i will pickup some
[10: 46am] peterthoeny: MoveToJQuery is one feature i'd like to see implemented
[10: 46am] peterthoeny: meaning replace BehaviourContrib with jquery in pattern skin
[10: 47am] peterthoeny: and remove behaviour from standard components
[10: 47am] SopanShewale: yup..makes sense.. that should be done
[10: 47am] SopanShewale: let us target that for next release (pattch
[10: 47am] SopanShewale: )
[10: 48am] peterthoeny: yes
[10: 49am] peterthoeny: another one is creating a few web server contribs (mod perl,
standalone etc)
[10: 49am] peterthoeny: basically finishing up what gilmar started
[10: 50am] peterthoeny: ok, anything else on features?
[10: 50am] SopanShewale: best would be - http: //twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/DatabaseStore
[10: 50am] SopanShewale: database backend stuff
[10: 51am] peterthoeny: yes
[10: 51am] peterthoeny: that is an important feature
[10: 51am] peterthoeny: and timely
[10: 52am] peterthoeny: bigger item
[10: 52am] SopanShewale: thats all on features
[10: 54am] SopanShewale: shall we move to next agenda item?
[10: 54am] peterthoeny: ---++ 2. Review Urgent Bugs
[10: 54am] peterthoeny: http: //develop.twiki.org/~twiki4/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/ReleaseBlocker
[10: 54am] SopanShewale: i am closing Item6423 - buildig TWiki 5.0.0
[10: 55am] peterthoeny: we are in *very good* shape for a x.x.0 release
[10: 55am] peterthoeny: congrats to you sopan as release manager
[10: 55am] SopanShewale:  thanks - and congratulations to your hard-work
[10: 55am] peterthoeny:
[10: 56am] SopanShewale: btw - thanks for fixing multiple fileupload for IE
[10: 56am] peterthoeny: good, once we have built automated it is easier to release patch
releases
[10: 56am] SopanShewale: we should have checked that on IE..  i never use IE so missed it..
[10: 56am] peterthoeny: on static html in twiki root, as discussed earlier i suggest to remove
[10: 56am] peterthoeny: and add pointer to online docs on twiki.org
[10: 57am] SopanShewale: yes.. i will find some time  in next week or so to fix build process
[10: 57am] peterthoeny: oh, one item we need to fix:  fix build contrib to allow crypttoken
on twiki.org
[10: 58am] peterthoeny: i turned crypt token feature off on twiki.org so that we can upload
extensions via build
[10: 58am] SopanShewale: ah.. good
[10: 58am] peterthoeny: i'll file a bug report unless there is already one for this
[10: 59am] peterthoeny: any other bug items to look at?
[10: 59am] SopanShewale: any idea - on UTF-8...
[10: 59am] SopanShewale: you timelines you thinking?
[11: 00am] SopanShewale: no other item Peter
[11: 00am] peterthoeny: utf-8, i think we will put priority on it once we get a project that
funds that work
[11: 01am] peterthoeny: 3. Miscellaneous
[11: 01am] peterthoeny: ---++ 3. Miscellaneous
[11: 01am] peterthoeny: anything?
[11: 01am] SopanShewale: nope - not at this moment
[11: 02am] peterthoeny: oops, twiki.org seems to be down
[11: 08am] peterthoeny: ok, meeting is over
[11: 09am] peterthoeny: attending to twiki.org issue
[11: 09am] peterthoeny: thanks sopan