Date: May 18, 2009 11:24:32 AM PDT
Subject: HelsinkiMeetingLog2009x05x18.txt

[10:00am]  PeterJones joined the chat room.
[10:00am] peterthoeny:hi pete!
[10:00am] PeterJones:hello PeterThoeny
[10:00am]  SopanShewale joined the chat room.
[10:00am] PeterJones:Hello Sopan
[10:01am] SopanShewale:Hi Peter
[10:01am] peterthoeny:hi sopan!
[10:01am] SopanShewale:Hi - good Morning
[10:02am] PeterJones:Good evening. Ill just go a fetcha beer
[10:02am] peterthoeny:does anybody have the log of the last meeting?
[10:03am] SopanShewale:not with me - sorry peter
[10:03am] peterthoeny:it is not attached, and unfortunately i rebooted my mac and don;t have the log
[10:04am] PeterJones:Sorry, I dont have it eitehr
[10:05am] peterthoeny:who was at that meeting? just the three of us?
[10:05am] SopanShewale:yes.. just three of us Peter
[10:05am] PeterJones:It was a holiday weekend and there were just 3 of us
[10:07am] peterthoeny:http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/HelsinkiReleaseMeeting2009x05x18
[10:08am]  You changed the topic to
"http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/HelsinkiReleaseMeeting2009x05x18".
[10:08am] peterthoeny:shall we start?
[10:08am] PeterJones:ok lets start
[10:08am] SopanShewale:yes
[10:08am] peterthoeny:proposed agenda:
[10:08am] peterthoeny:# 1. Feature requests for Helsinki Release
[10:08am] peterthoeny:# 2. Review Urgent Bugs
[10:08am] peterthoeny:what else?
[10:09am] peterthoeny:i'd like to add # 3. Attract Contributions
[10:09am] peterthoeny:e.g. recruiting question
[10:10am] SopanShewale:ok
[10:10am] peterthoeny:and let's start with a quick: 0. TWiki-4.3.1 Update Announce
[10:11am] peterthoeny:anything else?
[10:11am] peterthoeny:if not let's start
[10:11am] peterthoeny:---++ 0. TWiki-4.3.1 Update Announce
[10:12am] peterthoeny:thanks sopan for creating the update package
[10:12am] peterthoeny:now also up on sf.net?
[10:12am] SopanShewale:thanks Peter... yes, its been uploaded to sf.net
[10:12am] peterthoeny:nice
[10:12am] peterthoeny:first i did not plan to announce to twiki-announce
[10:13am] peterthoeny:but now i think it is a good excuse to ask people to nominate twiki for
sf.net community choice award
[10:13am] SopanShewale:yes..thats good idea.. btw - i have nominated twiki
[10:13am] peterthoeny:http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Blog/BlogEntry200905x2
[10:13am] SopanShewale:would be good idea to suggest for "category"
[10:14am] SopanShewale:would be good idea to suggest a "category"
[10:14am] peterthoeny:yes, two categegories, see blog post
[10:15am] peterthoeny:so, should i announce twiki-4.3.1-update to twiki-announce and at same
time ask people to nominate twiki?
[10:15am] SopanShewale:ah.. ok... i missed the second category.. may have to re-nominate
[10:16am] peterthoeny:as i understand this is a two step process
[10:17am] peterthoeny:1. nominate for 10 finalists in each category
[10:17am] peterthoeny:2. vote for best within category
[10:17am] PeterJones:I will check thi sout
[10:17am] peterthoeny:thanks pete
[10:17am] peterthoeny:also promote within your circles if you wish
[10:17am] peterthoeny:i am promoting within my networks
[10:18am] SopanShewale:cool.. yes i am doing
[10:20am] peterthoeny:---++ 1. Feature requests for Helsinki Release
[10:20am] peterthoeny:http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiFeatureProposals#ProposalsReadyForReleaseMeeting
[10:21am] peterthoeny:we have none ready for release meeting
[10:21am] peterthoeny:we had one accepted by 14 day rule
[10:21am] peterthoeny:http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/PreferencesForRawEditOrWysiwygEdit
[10:22am] peterthoeny:thanks pete for working on this!
[10:23am] peterthoeny:sorry, i did not yet provide feedback
[10:23am] PeterJones:I have nearly finished it. I had some problems with how the WebTopicCreator
works
[10:24am] peterthoeny:i have one feedback on "1. If WYSIWYG is disabled in config"
[10:24am] peterthoeny:is the idea to disable wysiwyg in configure?
[10:25am] peterthoeny:if so i suggest to disable in preferences setting so that it can be done as
user preference
[10:25am] PeterJones:No. I was pointing out how the raw editor could be used.
[10:25am] peterthoeny:so how does a user select the preferred editor?
[10:26am] PeterJones:The user would over ride the variable RAWEDIT, which is set to either 0 or 1
by the admin
[10:27am] PeterJones:I appended ;nowysiwyg=%RAWEDIT% to the EDIT lines in the actionbuttons template
[10:27am] peterthoeny:now i see it, sorry i am slow
[10:28am] peterthoeny:this is good
[10:28am] peterthoeny:wondering if we should plan for multiple editors in future
[10:28am] peterthoeny:such as an EDITOR setting
[10:29am] PeterJones:I think Ive covered all cases when an editor is called. Do you see any other
cases?
[10:29am] peterthoeny:if set to wysiwyg, the wysiwyg editor is enabled, else the raw editor
[10:30am] peterthoeny:so in future, someone could come up with:
[10:30am] peterthoeny:  * Set EDITOR = emacs
[10:30am] peterthoeny:or the like
[10:31am] PeterJones:Yes that sounds great. I think that the simple text editor should always be
an option to fall back on
[10:31am] peterthoeny:yes
[10:32am] peterthoeny:default twiki install could have this in twiki.twikipreferences:
[10:32am] peterthoeny:  * Set EDITOR = wysiwyg
[10:32am] peterthoeny:a user could set it to
[10:32am] peterthoeny:  * Set EDITOR = raw
[10:32am] peterthoeny:so we could document those two
[10:32am] peterthoeny:internally only "wysiwyg" is tested
[10:33am] peterthoeny:anything else falls back to raw
[10:33am] peterthoeny:just an idea
[10:33am] peterthoeny:this is your feature pete, so consider this food for thought
[10:33am] PeterJones:Ok I will try out this in my test area
[10:34am] peterthoeny:sopan, any otehr proposals you'd like to discuss?
[10:35am] SopanShewale:not from the current ones... has any one talked about mod_perlite before?
[10:36am] SopanShewale:may be some one should come up with new proposal - to use mod_perlite -
just an idea
[10:36am] peterthoeny:i am not familiar with mod_perlite
[10:36am] peterthoeny:something like mod_perl?
[10:37am] SopanShewale:something like mod_php
[10:37am] PeterJones:Isnt 4.3 shipped with this?
[10:37am] SopanShewale:mod_perlite is a lightweight Apache module that embeds a Perl interpreter
and suggests a default configuration where any file ending in ".pl" is interpreted by Perl. It
is the Perl equivalent of PHP in its simplicity and nothing like mod_perl in its complexity.
 (http://freshmeat.net/projects/mod_perlite/)
[10:37am] SopanShewale:anyway - that will be future stuff...
[10:38am] SopanShewale:right now i dont think i can discuss any proposals....could not invest much time
[10:38am] peterthoeny:so, use as standalone twiki?
[10:39am] SopanShewale:you may find -
http://broadcast.oreilly.com/2009/01/cgi-is-dead-mod-perlite-is-ali.html interesting this one
[10:40am] peterthoeny:thanks for the pointer, i'll read it
[10:40am] peterthoeny:we have many accepted proposals waiting to be implemented,
http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiFeatureProposals#AcceptedFeatureProposals
[10:40am] SopanShewale:ok... none from my side on proposal Peter
[10:41am] peterthoeny:many need to be cleaned up, or implemented
[10:41am] peterthoeny:time check: +41 min
[10:42am] peterthoeny:---++ 2. Review Urgent Bugs
[10:42am] SopanShewale:ok..
[10:42am] peterthoeny:http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki4/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/ReleaseBlocker
[10:42am] SopanShewale:let us first discuss about 6151
[10:43am] peterthoeny:http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki4/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/Item6151
[10:43am] peterthoeny:Item6151: Mapping of wikiname to RCS fails when email address used as login
(cUID to wikiname error?)
[10:43am] PeterJones:We see this wehen PassWord Manager is set to none
[10:44am] SopanShewale:i have spent some time on this - i could not recreate the PeterJ's issue -
but there is something wrong when  Apache takes care of authenticating users in 4.2.x and .3.x
users
[10:45am] SopanShewale:it throws error...
[10:45am] peterthoeny:looks like the superclass of password manager needs to be fixed (so that
"none" works)
[10:46am] peterthoeny:pete, what is expected behavior?
[10:46am] SopanShewale:yes.. looks like that way
[10:47am] peterthoeny:ah, expected rcs user is wikiname of user
[10:47am] peterthoeny:what user mapping manager do you use?
[10:48am] PeterJones:The password manager is set to teh Apache one
[10:48am] SopanShewale:Peter -i will update the Bug with my findings tomorrow
[10:48am] PeterJones:Sorry the passord manager is set to none.
[10:48am] peterthoeny:{UserMappingManager}
[10:49am] SopanShewale:i get error  "Undefined subroutine
&TWiki::Users::ApacheHtpasswdUser::ListIterator called"
[10:50am] PeterJones:As we use the Apache Login manager with SSO, the login manager should be set
to none.
[10:50am] peterthoeny:pete: we can fix the super class, alternatively you could write a
SsoPasswdUser module that does what you expect
[10:52am] SopanShewale:I think i should be able to take care of this bug by next weekend
[10:52am] SopanShewale:i was targeting to fix this during last sat/sunday - but got busy with other
items
[10:52am] PeterJones:That would be great Sopan
[10:52am] SopanShewale:India-elections results was more exciting
[10:52am] peterthoeny:nice
[10:53am] peterthoeny:http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki4/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/ReleaseBlocker list is
pretty short
[10:53am] peterthoeny:twiki is quite stable now
[10:54am] peterthoeny:issues mainly in wysiwyg and i18n
[10:54am] SopanShewale:
[10:54am] peterthoeny:any item you's like to look at sopan?
[10:55am] SopanShewale:i should take up Wysiwyg stuff.... keep upgrading..that may involve raising
new bugs too Peter
[10:56am] peterthoeny:yes, latest wysiwyg integration is probably solving a number of issues
[10:56am] SopanShewale:in the release blocker - mainly these bugs are either trunk only or they are
very old
[10:56am] SopanShewale:may not be actually bugs
[10:56am] peterthoeny:yes, overall we are in good shape
[10:57am] peterthoeny:go to next agenda item?
[10:57am] SopanShewale:yes
[10:57am] peterthoeny:---++ # 3. Attract Contributions
[10:57am] peterthoeny:we as community are still very small
[10:58am] peterthoeny:let's have an open ended discussion how we can attract more developers and
contributions
[10:59am] SopanShewale:is there any possibility of financing small projects
[10:59am] SopanShewale:?
[10:59am] peterthoeny:once we are vc funded
[10:59am] peterthoeny:until then we can only sponsor small projects
[11:00am] peterthoeny:but key point is to grow the open source community
[11:00am] SopanShewale:other idea is - there are many ideas/applications created in sandbox.. can
we have web say "Ideas"... that invites users to share applications
[11:00am] SopanShewale:or do some creative work
[11:01am] SopanShewale:The ideas are reviewed in some meetings and people appreciated through mailing
list/topics
[11:01am] peterthoeny:the project charter at http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/TWiki/TWikiCharter gives
some guidelines
[11:01am] peterthoeny:they are very high level
[11:02am] peterthoeny:roadmap at http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiRoadMap is more concrete
[11:02am] SopanShewale:correct.. new visitors gets time to go to TWikiCharter.. and it takes even
more time to read these topics.. by default very few, may 2 or 3 out of hundred may be reading all
these topics
[11:03am] SopanShewale:by default people are lazy and may not read
[11:03am] peterthoeny:for me the key question is how can we grow and scale community
[11:03am] peterthoeny:scaling is pretty much defined at governance,
 http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiGovernance
[11:03am] SopanShewale:yes.. having "Idea" might involve people to contribute apps/simple once
[11:03am] peterthoeny:new task teams can be formed
[11:04am] PeterJones:I like the Idea idea
[11:04am] SopanShewale:those who contribute- can become future contributes
[11:04am] peterthoeny:sopan, your idea on applications, would be driven by a application task team
[11:05am] peterthoeny:so, we can start small, e.g. define a task team
[11:05am] peterthoeny:and grow from there
[11:05am] peterthoeny:anotehr idea is to revitalize local meetups
[11:06am] peterthoeny:face to face meetings engage people, bring people interested in twiki together
[11:06am] SopanShewale:yes.. thats true
[11:06am] peterthoeny:i think it is time to organize a local meetup in the silicon valley
[11:08am] peterthoeny:pete: any feedback on how to grow community?
[11:09am] PeterJones:I like the idea of local meetups.
[11:09am] peterthoeny:yes, they are very good
[11:09am] peterthoeny:we organized a few in the silicon valley
[11:09am] SopanShewale:Peter - how many users from Silicon valley ask questions/or partitipate in
Support Web?
[11:09am] PeterJones:There were a few in europe over the last few years
[11:10am] peterthoeny:and i organized one with klaus ethgen in zurich on my last visit to switzerland
[11:10am] SopanShewale:may be - addressing those questions/converting that meeting into User meet
would be good idea
[11:11am] peterthoeny:pete: if included you could organize a twiki user meetup in geneva
[11:12am] PeterJones:That would be an idea
[11:12am] peterthoeny:and sopan: how about one in pune? there are many twiki users in pune
[11:13am] SopanShewale:yes.. pune - i am thinking about that
[11:13am] peterthoeny:tome check: +73 min
[11:13am] peterthoeny:oh, s/tome/time/
[11:13am] SopanShewale:have been talking to friend for space to organize that
[11:14am] peterthoeny:sopan: could be at a company in pune using twiki, such as persistent or wipro
[11:15am] SopanShewale:thats the idea
[11:15am] peterthoeny:
[11:15am] peterthoeny:ok, anything else? shall we close the meeting?
[11:16am] SopanShewale:nothing from my side at this moment..
[11:16am] SopanShewale:thanks...
[11:17am] PeterJones:Im done
[11:17am] peterthoeny:ok, thanks pete and sopan!
[11:17am] peterthoeny:lets ask other folks for next time, goal is to have 10 people at release meetings
[11:18am] SopanShewale:ok
[11:18am] peterthoeny:i'll post the log
[11:18am] PeterJones:Ok see you in 2 weeks
[11:18am] peterthoeny:see you next time!
[11:20am]  PeterJones left the chat room. ("Java user signed off")