Session Start: Mon Aug 04 20:50:49 2008 Session Ident: #twiki_release [20:50] * Now talking in #twiki_release [20:50] * Topic is 'http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/GeorgetownReleaseMeeting2008x07x20' [20:50] * Set by SvenDowideit_ on Sun Jul 20 15:53:18 [20:55] * Lavr changes topic to 'http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/GeorgetownReleaseMeeting2008x08x04' [21:01] * iradel has joined #twiki_release [21:02] anybody here? :-) [21:02] Good evening [21:02] Yes. :) Hi there! [21:02] Holla! [21:02] Hi sll [21:02] all [21:03] MoinMoin [21:03] We need a facilitator as I am on the notes [21:03] How about Peter? :-) [21:03] I believe Peter is not really here [21:04] I'm in lurker mode [21:04] Thats what I heard, too. [21:04] I can facilitate, if you like. [21:04] There is a Linuxworld or something these days [21:05] And TWiki.net are there with a booth as I understand [21:05] Martin go ahead and facilitate [21:05] Apropos: Im at the FrOSCon on Aug 23rd in Bonn, Germany. Anybody of you there, too? [21:05] Ah! Good luck for Peter. And loads of new TWiki-users for the community. :-) [21:06] Okay. [21:06] Who is there? [21:06] * OliverKrueger pings [21:06] The 4.2.1 release was well timed for them. Even though it was actually my vacation more than anything that set my deadline :-) [21:06] 1. TWiki 4.2.1 Post Mortem [21:07] I want to say: "Hoorraay! Good work!" :-) [21:07] I cannot expressed how releaved I am to finally have 4.2.1 out [21:07] Thanks to all that helped me. [21:07] Thanks for all the hard work! :) [21:07] It sounds awesome to have 150 bug fixes solved! [21:07] ditto [21:07] But I have also critizism ... [21:08] ... from the marketing side? [21:08] Why don't we have a press release in a blog entry online? [21:08] It was a hard weekend. I worked 8 hours Saturday and from 8AM Sunday morning till 5 AM Monday morning [21:08] Okay. [21:08] I will write a blog entry tonight. I was out of energy 5 AM [21:08] But we need marketing people, who do this job. [21:09] If nobody does it, I'll "repost" the anouncement sent to the mailing list on the blogs tonight [21:09] Lavr: It should not be all the same people to do the work. I will do that, if you allow. [21:09] All the information is already there. [21:09] yeah. We all need to spread the word. Even if this is a patch release it is an important one because it is the stability release that all needed [21:10] We need a list of addresses that need to be informed. [21:10] I will make a "release managers blog". Go ahead and make a more official one also. We can have more than one blog post for the release event. [21:10] For Germany I recommend heise online for example. [21:10] Since it is advertised as being 10-20/30% faster, it would be great if t.o would be migrated in the following weeks or so... ;) [21:10] It is a big event [21:10] Golem.de is another good hit. [21:11] someone can post to the TWiki twitter? [21:11] slashdot and co? [21:11] Okay. Let's take the following action items: [21:11] 1. Lavr will create a blog entry in his role as "release manager". [21:12] 2. MartinSeibert will create a weblog for the managers and marketing people in English and German. [21:12] 3. MartinSeibert will inform important German media about the current release and ask for coverage. [21:13] 3. MartinSeibert will create a wiki-document, that offers a list of sources to inform about new versions of TWiki [21:13] 4. MartinSeibert will create a wiki-document, that offers a list of sources to inform about new versions of TWiki [21:13] I will contact my people at heise, too. [21:13] I twittered already about that. :-) [21:13] 5. OliverKrueger will use his contacts at heise online for coverage. [21:14] Good, as I do not have any. :-) [21:14] Lavr: It does not say, that the system has gotten faster? [21:14] Will you add that? [21:14] Just one or two apprentices... [21:15] Slashdot is good. TechCrunch to add! [21:15] * Lavr welcomes iradel [21:15] I have not verified the speed increase Sven reported. But Sven had some intense testing and many numbers that support an increase. [21:16] But I cannot say if it is relative to 4.2.0 or relative to code one day earlier [21:16] I need to run some measurements here also. [21:16] Let's put a cautious 10% improvement in the release notes. [21:17] Action item: 6. Lavr will add an info, that states an improvement of 10% for the new TWiki-release. [21:18] Anything else on this topic? [21:18] how about a "call to arms" so everybody with a blog make a post in their personal blogs? [21:19] Yes, sure. Good idea. [21:19] is it possible to reuse all recipients mentioned at Codev.TWikiAdvocacy04x02? [21:19] I will put that in the press release. [21:19] Shouldn't we fix this on the homepage? - http://screens.seibert-media.net/mseibert/2008-08-04_2118.png [21:20] What is there to fix? [21:20] Yes. that list is perfect. [21:20] 4.2.1 is a 4.2 release [21:20] Okay. [21:21] I would have said, it would not be a harm to have it consistent above and below. [21:21] But no problem. [21:22] before it said Download 4.2.0. It is a bugfix release we have made. Not a new feature release. [21:22] I know many have not installed 4.2.0 because it was a .0 release. People always wait for the stable follow-up [21:23] Normally this comes 1-2 months after. This time it took a bit longer. [21:23] Okay. Gotcha. [21:24] Anything else? [21:24] I upgraded my Motion site. It took 15 minutes using the upgrade package and it went smoothly. So the upgrading works. [21:24] Any idea for more buzz? :-) [21:25] (Would be nice if there was any indication to hold off on a .0 release and that a ".1 bugfix release is coming". I am new to installing TWiki and just installed 2 full installations a week ago) [21:25] iradel: We are sorry for that. [21:26] But with open source it is not always clear, when people find time to finish their issues. [21:26] Use the upgrade package available on the download page. Just throw it on top and you are upgraded. (check files you have tailored first). [21:27] The upgrade package excludes those files you typically tailor. [21:27] I recommend: Let's never make announcements for the future. That can lead to big problems. This way is much better: a big hit out of nowhere. :-) [21:28] Like a wedding-gift for me. :-) [21:28] Yes. We were very close not to release for a month because of some bugs I found during Sunday. But CDot came to my rescue and helped me fix them. [21:28] Any more ideas on marketing buzz? [21:29] Shall we talk 4.2.2 briefly? [21:29] Lavr: Thanks again for the weekend-work. That is very valuable for the community. [21:29] Okay. [21:29] What will be in this release? [21:29] In principle 4.2.1 is quite good and we can live with this for a long time ... but [21:30] There are two things [21:30] 1. There are always some bugs - severe ones - after any release. Especially when it is a 7 months old one. [21:30] Do we have a place with plannings for all 4.2.2 issues? [21:30] so I expect 5-10 new bugs that would be nice to fix in a 4.2.2 [21:31] Apart from this discussion in the wiki? [21:31] 2. We have a backlog og around 150 Normal bugs and 40 or so Low bugs [21:31] So you plan another bug fixing release for 4.2.2? [21:31] Out of these 190 I would say 10-15 are really worth going for and the rest are small annoyances except.... [21:32] We have maybe 30 I18N bugs that requires UTF8 support. [21:32] UTF8 is NOT IN SCOPE for 4.2.2. [21:32] How do we decide what to go for in general? [21:32] I see 4.2.2 as a small release with maybe 10-20 bugs fixed which is dead easy to upgrade. [21:32] Is there any voting? [21:32] There's a nasty bug in 4.2.1's de.po (breaking edit.pattern.tmpl); is there a way to fix this (silently) before 4.2.2? [21:32] Or is it Lavr to judge? [21:33] Markus - have to raised a bug item? [21:33] We normally decide these things at these release meetings. [21:34] What does it break? [21:34] Markus: I do not think, that there is a need for a silent bug (except exploits). Just file a bug. [21:34] Not yet. I talked about the bug with AndreU (are you here?), whether this should go under Item5281 or not... but I haven't received an answer yet. [21:34] Lavr: Okay. [21:34] The german .po update naturally goes into 4.2.2. You can add a known issue with a ref to the bug item and put a corrected de.po on the bug item. [21:34] AndreU is not online in skype - I guess, he is offline. [21:34] ok [21:34] Markus. NO this requires a bug item for this particular issue. [21:35] The KnownIssues is exact for those things people can fix here and now instead of waiting for a release. [21:35] I'll open a new report and attach the corrected de.po (and a small diff). [21:36] Markus: Perfect. [21:36] Mark it urgent so we see it. [21:36] will do. [21:36] Action item: 6. MarkusUberall will file a severe bug he has already found in the new release and try to add a fix as soon as possible. [21:37] Markus: Okay? [21:37] 4.2.2 will also contain the code refactor that CDot made and I reverted. [21:37] ok [21:37] I expect 4.2.2 to be released in September. Probably in the middle. [21:37] Lavr: Will you create a document on 4.2.2 with all these infos? [21:38] Lavr: If we could make it a very small release, we could try to have it with the summit. :-) [21:38] Ahm. It is really the bug tracker we use as "a document". We mark the bug items with "patch" as target release. [21:38] That would be a good push on the motivation of the participants. [21:39] Lavr: No document with prosa and goals? [21:39] Lavr: No document with prose and goals? [21:39] AFAIK, not for patch releases. [21:39] No. Patch releases are pretty straight forward. When the pile of urgent bugs are nagging or we have a security urgentcy then we release a patch release. [21:39] Time check: +39 min [21:39] I am just looking in my crystal ball. [21:40] Okay. :-) [21:40] I would still like a marketing buzz idea, but have none myself. :-) [21:40] Let's finish "1. TWiki 4.2.1 Post Mortem " now. [21:41] Okay? [21:41] The message about 4.2.1 is most of all stability. [21:41] Wysiwyg editor is a much much better experience - compared to the 4.2.0. [21:41] I will put it in my blog entry. [21:41] Yep. Agreed. [21:41] EditTablePlugin has had some pretty nasty bugs fixed also. [21:41] PatternSkin issues have been resolved [21:42] The user mapping is fixed incl a security issue. The security issue only affected very special installations. [21:43] The public type TWiki is not affected (not using login names). [21:43] * OliverKrueger closes Action Item 5 (I sent an email to my heise contact) [21:43] Lavr: Will you add all this here: http://www.twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiRelease04x02x01#4_2_1_Bugfix_Highlights? [21:43] The enterprise TWiki is not affected if people cannot invent their own login names which most cannot [21:43] The release note has these [21:43] Oliver: We need the blog entries. Heise needs text to take over. :-) [21:44] Lavr: But in other words. Okay. [21:45] Lets move to the next topic: [21:45] The security team still needs to decide if the user mapping stuff requires a security advice. It probably does. We have not decided yet. In marketing context it is not a positive message. [21:45] 2. Feature requests for Georgetown Release [21:46] There is only one which is waiting for release meeting and that is... [21:46] http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/ProcessAddToHeadAdds [21:46] That was, what i wanted to say. :-) [21:46] But I cannot see that we can process it without Arthur and Sven. [21:46] I don't either. [21:46] Quite old one, right? [21:46] I think I will try and catch the two on #twiki when they are both there and get a talk going about it. [21:46] it has stalled on Codev. It does not get anywhere. [21:47] Arthur's last remark is: "Crawford's plugin works excellent. Do others see an urgent need to have pos next to requires? Otherwise I propose to move forward and implement this into the core. " [21:47] If the other guys agree then there is no release meeting decision required. Then it is accepted. [21:48] I can only read along. :-) [21:48] for 5.0! [21:48] ACK [21:48] for me, this raises the question if this should be in the core or leave it in a plugin [21:48] Soronthar: The more we have in the core, that is stable, the better it is. [21:49] There are many oppinions about what should be plugin and what should be core. [21:49] If Arthur recommends to put it in the core I am willing to agree. [21:49] This feature seems more like core to me. [21:50] So: ACK from me, the ignorant. :-) [21:50] I find it less good when one plugin has to add a tiny feature to make others work. Then it is because core misses it. [21:50] MartinCleaver also had one. But he seems to have pulled it back [21:50] I'm a fan of microkernels, but I can agree with what Lavr says. [21:51] so, ACK for me too. [21:51] No. He raised concern against his own proposal. [21:51] http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/MakingVarVARTopicCapable [21:53] he wants to discuss it at a meeting but does not say way and he is not here. So I am close to parking it and then he must take it to a meeting himself. [21:53] Just to summarize the action items: [21:53] 1. Lavr will create a blog entry in his role as "release manager". [21:53] 2. MartinSeibert will create a weblog for the managers and marketing people in English and German. [21:53] 3. MartinSeibert will inform important German media about the current release and ask for coverage. [21:53] 4. MartinSeibert will create a wiki-document, that offers a list of sources to inform about new versions of TWiki [21:53] 5. OliverKrueger will use his contacts at heise online for coverage. [21:53] 6. MarkusUberall will file a severe bug he has already found in the new release and try to add a fix as soon as possible. [21:54] One more. CDot should reapply his refactoring asap so it gets tested for 4.2.2 [21:54] Okay: 7. CDot should reapply his refactoring asap so it gets tested for 4.2.2 [21:55] I am capturing these in the minutes [21:55] sorry, was away. regarding the bug markus mention: it´s a simple string, maybe we probably let it sneak in the package? [21:55] Lavr: I agree. 8. MartinCleaver should bring this bug to the release meeting or be explicit about what to do at http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/MakingVarVARTopicCapable. [21:56] not bug. Feature proposal :-) [21:56] Lavr: Sorry. 8. MartinCleaver should bring this feature proposal to the release meeting or be explicit about what to do at http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/MakingVarVARTopicCapable. [21:56] :-) [21:57] Anything else? [21:57] for 6. I already got the fix [21:57] Time check: +57min [21:57] as I said its only a string [21:58] AndreU: We decided the following ... [21:58] Lavr Markus. NO this requires a bug item for this particular issue. [21:58] 21:35 Lavr The KnownIssues is exact for those things people can fix here and now instead of waiting for a release. [21:58] uebera|| I'll open a new report and attach the corrected de.po (and a small diff). [21:58] MartinSeibert Markus: Perfect. [21:58] 21:36 Lavr Mark it urgent so we see it. [21:58] AndreU: I just attached it to Twikibug:Item5581, too ;) [21:59] uh [22:00] It is best it gets its own bug with the fix attached because then it is a clean reference we can add to KnownIssuesxxx [22:00] Official time's up. :-) [22:00] Cool. [22:00] For information. [22:01] I am travelling and out of Internet reach most likely the 6th to 10th or so. [22:01] Anything to be raised under misc? [22:01] while I am in New York. [22:01] have a safe trip. :) [22:01] Then I continue to monther-in-law in Montreal where I expect to have more time. [22:01] Lavr: have a good journey. [22:02] Then I will participate in further governance discussions and prepare agenda for the Summit. [22:02] Okay. [22:02] Maybe you can put that info apart from the private parts on your Main.Page? [22:03] Who was arranging the Berlin meetup? [22:03] so see you soon again Lavr [22:03] Not the Summit but the meetup? [22:03] I also can announce, that I will be both in Berlin for the Summit and in Porto for WikiSym2008. [22:03] take enough money to buy things in New York [22:03] I will have a presentation in WikiFest-session. [22:03] Oh, yeah. The US-Dollar is weak. :-) [22:04] My wife has ordered a table in a NY restaurant where I have to wear tie and jacket. [22:04] Enhance your credit card limit ... :-) [22:04] so yes I will use lost of USD [22:04] lots - hmm lost seems right word also :-))) [22:04] :-) [22:05] My old wife also turns 50 while we are in Canada [22:05] So have a good time! :-) [22:05] 50? no wonder you like perl [22:05] Thanks all for coming. [22:05] I am 43 [22:06] And who says I like Perl? :-))) [22:06] iradel: weren't you the PHP-guy ... ;-) [22:06] Lavr: My wife is 5 years older.. [22:06] I think we have shifted to matters apart from the agenda. [22:07] That is why I will focus on my wife, whose age will not be disclosed here. :-) [22:07] Yes I think we can all say the official meeting is over and we are having a drink in the lobby [22:07] :-) [22:07] (a Kilkenny in my case) [22:07] Lavr: Do you have a txt-file of this chat for the notes? [22:08] I will upload the log yes. [22:08] The minutes are already saved. [22:08] * AndreU has quit IRC [22:08] Lavr: Will you put in the action items also? [22:08] Perfect. [22:08] I see it. [22:09] So. Goodbye all!