Question

In a Wiki-Web, Can I add a new Topic without first making a link and then clicking on a ? . I want to add a new topic simply by having a New button on the WebHome page. Is it possible to configure/tweak Twiki for that

Environment

-- VineetGrover - 23 Nov 2004

Answer

This has been implemented in KoalaSkin. It needs generalising to make it part of the TWikiKernel. How good are your coding skills? Are you able to take this on?

-- MartinCleaver - 23 Nov 2004

In TopicClassificationAddOn there is a CreateNewTopic topic for creating new topics which includes ability to base new topic on a template. It's kind of a modest "new topic wizard". You can see it in operation here.

-- LynnwoodBrown - 23 Nov 2004

There is also a good example on twiki.org located at ItemToDo. I think I used this example way-back when I wanted to more finely control how a topic was created and I also used this feature to make sure that FORM values were set appropriately (rather than being blank).

-- SteveRJones - 29 Nov 2004

Does anyone know of a way to do this programmatically? I have a database elsewhere, and when people add a new entry into that database I'd like to be able to automatically insert a wikiWord into a list page on our wiki (like the users list page)

The other code is in php.

-- StefanMagdalinski - 02 Dec 2004

It's been so long since I had the original twiki I forgot it didn't have a new topic button. I added one.It has 2 options: Create a new page by copying the current one as a template and set parent

Create a new page and select a Template (Parent set from "More" afterwards)

Removed (edited).

-- BruceRProchnau - 13 Apr 2005

Bruce, we should have this in the distro. Even on Codev.WebLeftBar we have a New topic wizard - the lack of this is one of the most unintuitive things about wikis. Sure, it tends to led to orphan topics but as long as we provide a way to find and link-in orphans that need not be an issue.

-- MartinCleaver - 13 Apr 2005

Yes, it does bypass the making of a link someplace, maybe a reminder to do so on the edit page. I added "newtopic" in the cgi directory, I think I stole it from koalaskin and just added it.(creatively aquired?) I notice the release don't have that.

-- BruceRProchnau - 14 Apr 2005

To make this more helpfull, I added the newtopic in (bin), added template "oopscreate.tmpl, and added the link to create new.

-- BruceRProchnau - 14 Apr 2005

See the attached file. I included the template and newtopic needed with code and instructions. This works in my installation, should be ok. I just now did a testrun by adding this to a new install I recently did, works fine. It saves directly. If anyone can improve it in any way, even the two forms that would be great:

Form A: Create a new page by copying the current one as a template and set parent (Best used from a Template page, make your own)

Form B: Create a new blank page with present one as parent, save here opens to edit window.

I was unable to combine them to be able to do both.It adds the newtopic to the topic list, of course, but you have to remember to make a link to the new page somewhere.

-- BruceRProchnau - 14 Apr 2005

Bruce - Just thought I'd point out that TopicClassificationAddOn incorpororates a CreateNewTopic wizard that does not require any special scripts or templates. Furthermore, in developing that add-on, I concluded it was better to provide a CreateNewTopic link that takes you to a page in which you set your parameters for the new topic rather then jumping directly to the new topic as this have less chance of creating "accidental" new pages.

Furthermore, the CreateNewPage topic allows the user to set several parameters for the new topic at once, including selecting a template for it (what I called " TopicTypes" and assign a category (what I called " SubjectAreas"). The approach I developed also allowed for display of additional custom input fields on the CreateNewTopic page, depending on which topic template was choosen.

I think it might be worth your studying this approach a bit as I have concluded that it is both simplier to implement and actually provides a more useful "wizard" interface for offering structured options for the user. (As an aside, while I know's there lots of room for improvement, I feel the interface I came up with is significantly more user-friendly than the CreateNewTopic interface offered in the Codev web.)

One other point: my current version of TopicClassificationAddOn bases parentage on the topic template choosen (as does your approach described above) but recently I've reconsidered that approach and intend to redesign it in my next version. It makes more sense to me now to base parentage on the assigned subject area rather then the template choosen.

-- LynnwoodBrown - 14 Apr 2005

Lynnwood- that Addon is great, I am still figuring it out as it adds a lot of needed functions. It is probably just me being dense, but it is taking me a while to figure it all out. I thought this was just a simple one button link that gives two options to add a new topic, nothing else. Simplicity. I am still learning your TopicClassificationAddOn - I really need to study it more, and believe it will add what I was looking for both for organizing a TWiki and creating a twikiblog.

I was just looking at it now, one could if so inclined, make a simplified version for dummies like me? It would be great to have a version of this that would just create a new topic with maybe two paramaters?

-- BruceRProchnau - 14 Apr 2005

I'm sure that if you find something confusing about TopicClassificationAddOn, the fault is in my design, not your intelligence. Hopefully, your feedback can help me simplify it.

Part of the reason TopicClassificationAddOn might seem complex at first is that includes both a system for users to define a topic classification schema for their wiki (like the interface in MT for defining catagories), plus the interface for applying that schema to new topics. Since we're only talking about the second aspect of the add-on here, let's ignore the first part. So lay aside for now those parts of the add-on that are involved with defining new TopicTypes and SubjectAreas and just look at the CreateNewTopic page.

Here's the basic steps, with options, this system provides for creating a new topic:

1. Click on CreateNewTopic link -> takes you to CreateNewTopic page. (I don't see why we need to use a special template for this.)
2. Select what kind of topic you want to create (i.e. discussion topic, weblog, reference topic, etc.
3. Fill in the topic information:
   • Enter a WikiWord name for the new topic.
   • (Optionally) assign a category (or "subject area").
   • (Optionally) fill in additional form fields related to kind of topic selected.
4. Click on "Create new topic" button -> takes you to the edit view for new topic, with the appropriate template selected with the information entered in the form fields during step 3 pre-filled in.
5. Click on "save"

Like lot's of wizard-like interfaces, TopicClassificationAddOn offers more or less options, depending on choices the user makes. However, it does offer basically 2 options: 1) to choose what type of topic the user wants to create (i.e. a weblog, a meeting note, a reference topic, a discussion topic, etc., based on what template topics are available), and 2) assign a category to the topic. To me, these are the two most basic decisions a user would make about a new topic: what kind of topic to create and how to categorize it. As an aside, this is different from MT because in that program, the user does not get to choose what kind of topic to create — they get the one type MT offers: a blog.

You know, I've found that this is more difficult to describe than it actually is in practice. If you just try it out, I think it will start to become clearer.

A couple more comments:

• In practice, I do not see it as very useful to offer the user the ability to use every topic as a template for their new topic. That's why I only offer templates that are defined as such.
• I'm not decided yet whether it's useful to offer the option to select parentage among all possible topics. I think it might be more useful to simply do it based on selected category.

Hope this helps (a little) .

-- LynnwoodBrown - 14 Apr 2005

Grin...I didn't think it was my intelligence, at least not yet lol. It was more a matter of giving it enough time and attention that it deserves. I am quite excited at its possibilities. Some of the confusion is solely terminology:

(Optionally) assign a category (or "subject area").

Category is a well known term, "subject area" may be valid, but leaves me wondering. Also on where it says "Create new Blog"....to most who use Movable Type, Wordpress, Expression Engine and others, it means a whole new site - weblog. But it really needs more time and attention on my part, and grasping some terms.

Quote: "It makes more sense to me now to base parentage on the assigned subject area rather then the template choosen"

I agree, calling it a category then the new topic will be in that category, which is "parent" which is of course logical. I believe your way here is the better choice, and has additional options. I just have to chew on it a bit at a time til I grasp it

-- BruceRProchnau - 15 Apr 2005

Terminology. I was just going over it here.

Weblog page. Create new weblog next: Select what kind of topic you would like to create: Options: referencetopic, subjectarea, weblog

Referencetopic most can relate to, subjectarea loses me, and weblog is always used to refer to the entire site normally. Create a new weblog in weblog terminology would mean to create a separate blog, like a separate web in twiki, only more separated.

-- BruceRProchnau - 15 Apr 2005

A topic isn't a weblog...its in the wording mostly.

-- BruceRProchnau - 15 Apr 2005

Add a topic to an existing weblog would be clearer?

-- BruceRProchnau - 15 Apr 2005

A weblog isn't a kind of topic, its a place to put a topic? I think the CreateNewTopic?template=WebLog is totally great!!!! It has the option of adding a link if the topic is about a website or offsite (or onsite) link,name of site or whatever, and a text area that is used instead of calling up the edit page, This is great!!!! And I know more features are in there...someplace as I find/learn them.

I believe this will be the heart of a twikiblog, and an answer to the normally disorganization of wiki's content and navigation system drawback.

-- BruceRProchnau - 15 Apr 2005

What I am looking for is...say a weblog, like this has. Perfect. Then the ability to create separate categories IN that weblog,

Quote: "It makes more sense to me now to base parentage on the assigned subject area rather then the template choosen."

Base parentage on that category in that weblog, and that's it. Perfect!

Doing a step at a time here, brain cramps

-- BruceRProchnau - 15 Apr 2005

Your right about the terminology - it's a bit tricky. Part of the challenge is needing to select terms that can be presented as a WikiWord. So category is difficulty (and I've always HATED the fairly common wiki use of " CategoryCategory" ). And in plain English, is not a category really just a subject area? It seems to me that "category" is really only intuitive to someone who's seen a lot of blogs. When in doubt, I try to default back to the most plain-english, non-jargon terms I can come up with.

Regarding weblog, since the root of the word is a merging of "web" and "log" (as in making a log of web sites visited), and since the word "log" is traditionally used for both the record as a whole and the individual entries, I have felt that it was reasonable to refer to the individual entries as WebLogs also. I suppose one could also call them WeblogEntries. It's just longer and I like short.

But in the end, it is all a subjective call and we just have to make our best judgement. In the end, I'm not very attached to what terminology is used and TopicClassificationAddOn doesn't impose any particularly terminology. One could easily change the TopicTypes to anything one choices.

-- LynnwoodBrown - 15 Apr 2005

yup. Category only refers to the group which the topic is under.

Cars

• new cars
• old cars
• my car

Category is cars. topics- types of cars, which are all in the category cars. When I go to this weblog on my site, there is a list of entries(MTinfluence)/Topics ordered by date (for now). It is a weblog. It is awesome, perfect, and everything ever dreamed of. I like it, a lot.

All are in a weblog, webs are for spiders and logs are to burn...lol

I do agree, this is far better than what I added below, the newtopic button/link. It could also be used only to add new topics for those who don't want to get into the more advanced functions or weblog stuff. The text field on the page is great.

Can this also be listed in a menu? In order?

CreateNewTopic?template=WebLog has at the bottom a list of existing weblog topics. That would be great to separate topics in the menu list, but when I added the code from there into my menu, I got also a list of all the Topics Including the ones to make it all happen, not just what shows there.

-- BruceRProchnau - 15 Apr 2005

I just found this out, if I create a newsubject area, enter a new topic name, and provide a short topic headline for new topic, the headline shows as a link below the topic. This is good? Is it possible to add more headlines?? to that? and what is the idea behind this.

-- BruceRProchnau - 15 Apr 2005

I can't quite imagine what you're describing. Can you point me to the topic? I tried to find it but couldn't. Tried to find your WebChanges topic but couldn't find it either.

BTW, here's another possible WikiWord for a single weblog entry: BlogPost.

-- LynnwoodBrown - 15 Apr 2005

Create New Topic Subject Area Optional: Provide short TopicHeadline for new topic: If I provide a heading it is in the menu list as a wikiword link below subject topic name. The site is open for you to add/edit if you like. I'll check the webchanges... See TestSubjectArea2 - TestSubjectArea3 -

-- BruceRProchnau - 15 Apr 2005

The TopicHeadline is a field in the WebForm. In the examples you point to, you must have entered a WikiWord in to the field. It's meant to display a normal, descriptive phrase, similar what you see in AnotherTestSubjectArea (which I just created).

BTW, you'll notice the SIDEBAR is displaying properly in SubjectArea topics now since I added the relevant variable to your TWikiPreferences (and also cleaned up a couple other little things there).

-- LynnwoodBrown - 15 Apr 2005

Also, was a conscious decision not to display the topics' WebForm in your normal view?

-- LynnwoodBrown - 15 Apr 2005

I fixed webchanges, forgot it lol.

I don't know what you mean by the last part, not to display topics webform...

Thank you!!!

-- BruceRProchnau - 15 Apr 2005

The WebForm is the form at the bottom of some topics. For example the one at the bottom of this topics shows " SupportStatus: AnwseredQuestions." These aren't showing up in your template, although they are in the edit view.

One other thing: you list all topic changes under the heading "New Weblog Entries Test"? Are you considering all topics as weblogs? I think of weblogs as only one possible kind of wiki topic.

Enough for tonight... see you tomorrow.

-- LynnwoodBrown - 15 Apr 2005

No, I just used that to test it. Does the webform perform a function? I never thought about it, may have fell off the teplate

-- BruceRProchnau - 15 Apr 2005

• NewTopicAddon.zip: New Topic Addon