Subject: KampalaMeetingLog2016x08x18.txt Date: August 18, 2016 3:54:23 PM PDT [14:59] == peterthoeny__ [46c5043f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.197.4.63] has joined #twiki_release [14:59] guten abend HaraldJoerg! [15:02] >Guten Abend! [15:03] was ist neu? [15:04] My new TWiki installation in a highly secured network works fine [15:05] schön! [15:05] ...and it was the first where I saw the insecure dependency in real life [15:05] Heute nur deutschsprachige Teilnehmer? :) [15:05] ah, so you have now an incentive to find the cause :-) [15:06] ja, hideyo-san ist noch nicht da [15:06] Ich habe gemogelt... es ist eine mod_perl installation, da genügt eine Zeile, um den Taint switch abzuschalten [15:07] aha, mit dem debug print? [15:07] Der Fehler tritt wieder "nur" bei Nutzern über VPN auf [15:08] ...nein, einfach "PerlSwitches -T" auskommentiert [15:08] noch einfacher [15:08] Aber eben nur mit persistenten Interpretern möglich. [15:09] Es gab ganz interessante Anforderungen und Fehlerbilder... [15:10] Ein SMTP-Server, der nur mit starttls arbeitet - eigentlich ganz vernünftig - das kam vor acht Jahren schon mal als Thema, aber erst aktuelle Versionen von Net::SMTP kennen die Methode (ab Perl 5.22) [15:10] mein sohn hat bald seine neue rakete fertig gemacht [15:10] Wie lange dauert es, so eine Rakete zu bauen? [15:11] wir arbeiten langsam [15:11] ist etwas complex den carbonfiber anzumachen [15:12] Ok... richtige Chemie [15:12] mit vakuum-sack und vacuum pumpe [15:13] Wie oft kann so eine Rakete fliegen? Gelegentlich gibt's ja doch Bruchlandungen [15:13] we use vacuum bag to suck out excessive resin so that we get an optinal ratio of resin and carbon [15:14] this rocket goes 2x speed of sound and has a high acceleration [15:14] wow [15:14] the fins are most critical for failure, e.g. they need to be very strong [15:14] hence the carbon fiber [15:15] with small motor (smallest possible for him to pass level 3 certification) it will go 25,000 feet [15:15] with big motor about 50,000 feet [15:16] So you need an area without any air traffic to launch [15:16] indeed [15:16] we launch in the black rock desert in nevada [15:16] the club gets a waiver from the faa (federal aviation administration) [15:17] I'd guess this would be required [15:17] i think for a radius of 10 miles and altitude 100,000 feet [15:17] Ok, so no clear path to orbit right now [15:17] anything higher needs special permission, case by case [15:18] time check: +18 min [15:18] looks like hideyo-san will not join [15:18] Regarding not-joining: Next time I'll be in vacation in italy [15:18] oh, have fun! [15:19] you get the best pizza in italy [15:19] where do you go? [15:19] Thanks... and you get very different pizza in different regions [15:19] yup [15:20] agenda: 1. Feature Requests for Kampala Release, 2. Extensions, 3. Review Urgent and Not So Urgent Bugs, 4. TWiki Roadmap Discussions, 5. Miscellaneous [15:20] maybe just 1 and brainstorm on 4? [15:20] Fine with me [15:21] ---++ 1. Feature Requests for Kampala Release [15:21] http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/WebChanges [15:22] we have one new: [15:22] http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/VarEDITFORMFIELDwithTextarea [15:22] That's a very good thing to do [15:22] requested by someone in a support question [15:22] i posted 4 days ago [15:23] any feedback for change? [15:23] By chance, I got my first experience to use EDITFORMFIELD in the "new" TWiki, but did not (yet) need textareas [15:23] No, the proposal is just fine [15:23] well, textareas are already supported by EDITFORMFIELD if you point it to a form definition [15:24] this is a standalone textarea in EDITFORMFIELD [15:24] shall we vote? [15:24] I saw the Support topic too and glimpsed at the code, but had no immediate idea how to implement it [15:24] Yes, a clear +1 from me [15:24] +1 [15:25] thanks, accepted by release meeting [15:25] i just updated the topic [15:25] just status changes on other proposal topics, so nothing else new [15:26] do you have any feature you'd like to cover? [15:26] No [15:26] ---++ 4. TWiki Roadmap Discussions [15:26] http://www.twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiRoadMap [15:26] I was (again) amazed about the Features TWiki already has [15:26] I found a nifty application for the "return" type of COMMENT [15:26] yup, very feature rich [15:27] would be challenging to rewrite in, say, javascript [15:27] Sure, but why would one want to do that? [15:28] on roadmap, we have a longer focus roadmap, and a release focus for each release [15:28] current release focus: [15:28] http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/KampalaRelease#Release_Focus [15:29] i think the current roadmap is too big, too many areas [15:29] well, it is good to think big, but some more focus is good [15:30] And in my opinion it doesn't really reflect the pain points [15:30] fo me longer term the focus is application platform [15:30] paint points for users o admins? [15:30] "pain points" [15:30] Pain points as become evident in support questions [15:31] Mostly admins, users usually don't write Support questions... they bugger their admins :) [15:31] yes [15:32] if you look from pipeline of adoption, i suspect many drop out early in eval due to installation/config challenges [15:32] My own agenda (in my spare time) revolves around the topics which I'm most familiar with, or which I am practicing in other projects as well [15:32] and not enough guidance how to customize and get started with users [15:32] Yes, installation and config belong to the pain points [15:33] hence the idea of a standalone app for eval that has all contained makes a whole lot of sense [15:33] For so many users a plain TemplateLogin, PatternSkin TWiki is fully sufficient [15:34] true for initial use [15:34] Yes, standalone without the Apache hassle [15:35] The combo of corresponding changes in Apache config and LocalSite is a nightmare for beginners [15:35] And LocalSite still has its dark corners [15:35] but then, if we "just" focus on ease of getting started and ease of use i think we do not have enough differentiation to other wikis like confluence [15:36] hence my idea to drive the app platform [15:36] Oh, we don't need differentiation against confluence [15:37] Just being able to say "like confluence, only cheaper" would be fully sufficient [15:37] "hee is a wiki and app platform, browse the app repository, and install apps you need for your team - save time and be more productive" [15:37] "here is a..." [15:37] Atlassian has paved the way for people to understand the interactions between collaboration (Confluence) and project management (Jira) [15:38] with this message we differenciate from others, and play a nice niche [15:38] A structured wiki can offer both Confluence-like collaboration *and* Jira-like project management in one go [15:38] indeed [15:39] In the secured network, I advertised it as an "lightweight everything" because it also serves as a document management system [15:40] so imagine if over time there is a jira like app, a good mindmap app, a shared contact list app, a resource planning app, a employee handbook app, a helpdsk app, ... [15:40] so the more apps we have (free and for a fee), the more valuable the plaform gets [15:40] I guess there are oodles of jira like apps in place [15:41] Jira needs lots of customizing effort (as does TWiki) to get it right for a particular use case [15:41] An interesting question would be "can we write a TWiki app that looks like Jira-out-of-the box" [15:42] well, we don't need to compete with confluence+jira, we offer a platform with apps for many different business needs [15:42] But I doubt it would be worth the effort [15:42] Yes, exactly: A platform without any need for gateways between applications which break on every update [15:43] confluence+jira has cornered the market, it does not make sense to try to compete in the engineering tools space [15:44] a generic platform where over time many apps are available for various vertical markets is bigger [15:44] i think that is our position where we can differenciate [15:44] I'd say it has helped people to understand that project management and collaboration are two different things which need to cooperate closely [15:45] (it=confluence+jira) [15:45] yes [15:46] The ability to reliably link the things together is a true differentiator [15:46] Ever tried to deep-link into an interesting Sharepoint-page? Good luck with that [15:46] indeed [15:47] InterWikis can be used to link to other in-house applications [15:47] twiki apps have a simple way to link: every app page has a relatively short url [15:49] i am busy at work, shall we close early today? [15:49] No problem for me, I've no urgent topics [15:50] ok [15:50] let's close this meetimg [15:50] i'll post the logs and minutes as usual [15:50] fine! [15:50] thank you HaraldJoerg & gute nacht! [15:51] TTYL ...As I wrote, I might miss one or two meetings [15:52] ok, viel spass in italien! [15:52] Danke!