Subject: KampalaMeetingLog2016x08x04.txt Date: August 4, 2016 3:57:41 PM PDT #twiki_release: (no topic set) [14:58] == peterthoeny__ [46d612a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.214.18.165] has joined #twiki_release [14:58] hi haj_! [14:58] == HaraldJoerg [~haj@ip5f5bea60.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #twiki_release [14:59] hallo HaraldJoerg [14:59] This will be tricky tonight.... new OS, new IRC client [15:00] Am stil fighting with various config items [15:00] ah, what os? [15:00] Debian ... I abandonded Ubuntu [15:00] == HideyoImazu [ddfc2e55@gateway/web/freenode/ip.221.252.46.85] has joined #twiki_release [15:00] oh [15:00] any rason? [15:00] reason? [15:00] Their new package manager makes it impossible to find dev tools [15:01] Hi Peter and Harald! [15:01] The old one had "show technical items" for Perl libraries, the new one doesn't [15:01] I don't like to be reduced to apt-get (though I use command line whenever I exactly know the package name) [15:02] == haj_ [~haj@ip5f5bea60.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] [15:03] ...and hello, Hideyo-san! [15:03] hi HideyoImazu-san [15:03] Hi [15:03] i am more familiar with redhat/centos [15:04] somewhat confused with debian style apache [15:04] Red Hat ships with incomplete, ancient Perls [15:05] ys, that is the big dawback with redhat [15:05] If you want to be *really* confused with Apache config, try SUSE :) [15:05] the confusing part is if you create a backup of a .conf file in the same directory, debian picks up the backup too [15:06] e.g. twiiki.conf.bak [15:06] what's new in tokyo? [15:06] Only in *some* directories, but yes [15:06] Backups in sites-available are harmless unless you activate them [15:07] Debian does that per command and symlinks, not per config file editing [15:08] news on my side: my wife is back from 2 month in hong kong [15:08] means good meals again [15:08] Mine will go to Shanghai next week [15:08] also more restrictions ;-) [15:09] swmbo [15:09] :) [15:09] time check: +9 min [15:09] shall we start? [15:09] sure [15:10] http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/KampalaReleaseMeeting2016x08x04 [15:10] usual agenda: [15:10]  1. Feature Requests for Kampala Release, 2. Extensions, 3. Review Urgent and Not So Urgent Bugs, 4. Miscellaneous [15:11] Darn... need to copy my bookmarks and RSS feeds, too [15:11] ---++ 1. Feature Requests for Kampala Release [15:11] http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/WebChanges [15:12] no updates on proposals since last time [15:12] someone asked about roadmap [15:12] i'll reply [15:12] ---++ 2. Extensions [15:12] http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/WebChanges [15:13] http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/AutoSectionsPlugin [15:13] i have seen mahio-san did many changes in this plugin [15:13] thank you! [15:14] "mahiro-san" [15:14] Is it on twiki.org? [15:14] not yet, i'll update in the next few days [15:15] i mean, mahiro-san updated the package on twiki.org, but the installed one on twiki.org is not yet updated [15:15] http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/PublishContribDev [15:16] ok. I'll update the package [15:16] no, package seems to be up to date [15:16] just not updated on twiki.org twiki [15:17] back on PublishContrib: [15:17] HideyoImazu-san: last time you said that you will reply to the person's question [15:17] friendly reminder [15:17] ah. will do [15:17] thanks [15:18] this is all on extensions since last time [15:19] anything else on extensions? [15:19] ---++ 3. Review Urgent and Not So Urgent Bugs [15:19] http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/WebChanges [15:20] 5 AutoSectionsPlugin items by mahiro-san - thanks again [15:21] http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/Item7721 [15:21]  Item7721: TWiki 6 fails with "insecure dependency" on recent (2016) Linux distributions [15:21] Oh yeah - that's a nuisance [15:21] thanks for witing update on this [15:22] I had promised that for a long time, but forgot until today [15:22] hard to nail down that one [15:22] I have no idea why it turns up with Perl 5.10 now [15:23] any progress will help new admins because they tend to use a os distro with recent perl [15:23] And the error disappears randomly and then comes again [15:23] I am pretty sure that it isn't in TWiki, but that's no use [15:23] yup [15:24] next: [15:24] http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/Item7749 [15:24]  Item7749: Setting redirectto by preference variable [15:24] what is the status on this? [15:24] I think it's done. [15:24] I will confirm and update the page accordingly. [15:24] ool [15:24] cool [15:24] thanks [15:25] that is all on bugs [15:25] anything else on bugs? [15:25] ---++ 4. Miscellaneous [15:25] i have one [15:25] do you have anyhing? [15:26] No [15:27] nothing from me [15:27] ok [15:27] for each release we define a release focus [15:27] the current kampala release one is at [15:27] http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/KampalaRelease#Release_Focus [15:28] this gives good mid-term focus [15:28] roadmap is longer term [15:28] we have not looked at roadmap for long time [15:29] we will release a new one in Oct/Nov? [15:29] http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiRoadMap [15:29] i think we should [15:30] from my side roadblock is the app packager [15:30] which i neglected for a long time [15:30] this time Kampala? [15:30] Looking back at the last year's support question, I'd say that "easy installation" is a frequent need [15:31] easy installation is really expected, and with a relason [15:31] "reason" [15:31] Many evaluators have no use for the vast amout of freedom they have with the Apache/TWiki combo [15:31] challenge is the many platforms we have, and many variations in perl, modules and other dependencies [15:32] Yes, and that's why I think packaging is the best way forward [15:32] the twiki-vm is an easy way to go, but it is less used than i hoped for [15:32] Either a CPAN package, or a Debian package [15:32] TWiki VM is just a workaround. [15:32] even though virtualization is a given nowadays at company datacenters [15:33] Application evaluators don't have easy access to datacenter resources [15:33] yes, that is true [15:34] having a virtual server provisioned is one thing. using a vm image in a corporate environment is another [15:34] best would be an eval package that can be used out of the box [15:34] Yes, and getting the whole guest infrastructure configured is another [15:34] not necessarily intended for production use, but has all that is needed to get started with users and content [15:34] e.g. an easy to install standalone twiki [15:35] i think that would serve our userbase better than a debian or cpan package [15:35] debian is limited to debian, cpan needs perl & cpan knowledge [15:36] standalone twiki without using Apache HTTPD or Nginx ? [15:36] with cpan you could get into dependency issues as well, such as too low perl & lib version on centos [15:36] or too new perl & cpan libs on debian :-) [15:36] For evaluators, I'd say both Apache and Nginx are way too much of a distraction [15:37] so a standalone that has perl and eberything in it would be best [15:37] Yeah, that's what I am using on Windows :) [15:37] yes, standalone with webserver built-in [15:38] indeed, what you have done HaraldJoerg is the ticket to standalone i think [15:38] so it would mean two packages, one for win, one for linux [15:39] both should require minimum configuration, best if automated with config script [15:39] I have no experience about libc compatibility issues between different Linux versions [15:40] That's why I still have a slight preference to use the Linux-specific packaging systems [15:40] like in this scenario: download package to centos, unpack under /var/www/twiki, run twikiconfig.sh, answer a few questions such as port number [15:40] then run twiki [15:41] with instructions how to run as service [15:41] Debian is a bit special because I'm doing a lot debian packaging these days, so I'm starting to get fluent with the different debhelper tricks and pitfalls [15:41] Running as a service is very tricky [15:42] yes, service is os and os version dependent [15:42] Switching from Sysinit to systemd changes the game completely [15:42] i just learned how to rewrite a centos 6 to a centos 7 service [15:43] so that means, the package should come with a set of init scripts per os & version on linux [15:43] i think initially centos 6 and centos 7 and one (two?) debian should be sufficient [15:44] What format is centos using? RPM? [15:44] rpm is underlying format [15:44] yum is a higher level package manager [15:45] i would not even go that route [15:45] That would be going across Red Hat, CentOS, Fedora and SUSE [15:45] simply a zip to unzip, then run configure [15:45] .deb ist for Debian and Ubuntu [15:46] that's why i think a simple .zip that is independent of os package manager is an easier way to go [15:46] at least fo us for maintenance [15:46] I doubt that... the package manager will go a long way to check dependencies [15:47] what if perl itself is contained in package? [15:47] so all what's needed to run on a bare bone linux is in the package [15:48] Yes, that's the approach I use for the Windows personal edition [15:48] or, if we rely on system perl, make the package run on a wide range of perl by adding most libs we need into the package (load them first) [15:49] like cgi.pm etc [15:50] That is another way to work with PAR and PP [15:50] what is that? [15:50] PAR is for Perl what JAR is for Java, and pp is the "packer" - the tool that builds the windows executable [15:51] ah, not familar with [15:51] It is just a PAR plus the executable [15:51] Works quite fine if you want to deploy anything perlish on windows [15:52] another route is to rewrite twiki in node.js ;-) [15:52] Nobody complains if you ship a 20MB executable, but you wouldn't find friends if you ask then to install Strawberry first [15:52] exactly [15:53] I think that would work on Linux, too [15:53] ok, for next time i invite you to look at the current roadmap, [15:53] http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiRoadMap [15:53] let's brainstorm on that next time [15:53] time check: +53 min [15:54] i have a hard stop at +60 min [15:54] we could also close earlier [15:55] I'm fine with an earlier close, too [15:55] ok, lets close the meeting [15:55] HideyoImazu-san? [15:55] anything? [15:55] i'm fine [15:55] ok, thank you both! [15:55] ttyl [15:56] i'll post the minutes and logs as usual [15:56] ttyl [15:56] ttyl