Session Ident: #twiki_edinburgh [21:47] * Now talking in #twiki_edinburgh [21:47] Good evening :-) [21:47] * MichaelDaum has joined #twiki_edinburgh [21:48] * Soronthar has joined #twiki_edinburgh [21:54] * PeterThoeny has joined #twiki_edinburgh [21:55] * CDot has joined #twiki_edinburgh [21:55] hi crawford, kenneth, micha, rafael and sven [21:55] Greetings and salutations [21:56] hi all [21:56] micha, how many sites are using blogup? [21:57] Greetings all! [21:57] not much till now [21:57] hi lynnwood, nice to have you here :-) [21:57] actually I dont know [21:57] I get regular feedback from two [21:58] it's a nice bloggin app, i bet there will be many over time [21:58] very glad to be here again! [21:58] anybody here that tried it? [21:58] almost beggs for a package that contains twiki, the plog app and all the dependent extensions [21:59] Good evening/morning all [21:59] TWikiFor is an ooold idea [21:59] though all cry add-it-to-the-core [21:59] and no way back [21:59] that is stuff that goes out of the core [22:00] to make that clear: I am against adding stuff to the core and pro TWikiFor [22:00] today i have a hard stop at +120 min [22:00] wbniv will be glad to hear it ;-) [22:01] not about your hard stop ;-) about MichaelDaum's TWikiFors [22:01] lets see if we can keep it within the 90 min goal [22:01] Just a note: I can be here for next hour. I invite folks to consider who like to step up and facilitate after that. [22:01] I'll be glad to take lead for time i'm here to ride herd [22:01] let's just get on with it, and worry about that when the time comes [22:02] sounds good [22:02] * SteffenPoulse has joined #twiki_edinburgh [22:02] though I wish steffen was here [22:02] aha! [22:02] tada! [22:02] great timing! [22:02] hi steffen! [22:02] sorry for being late [22:02] so will someone be taking notes? [22:02] and do we have agenda items to add [22:02] In progress of taking notes [22:02] to http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/EdinburghReleaseMeeting2006x03x13 [22:02] thanks kenneth [22:03] thanks lavr! [22:03] I can note .. taking edit lock [22:03] i added the dakar update of twikil.org to the agends, suggested by meredith [22:03] as i mentioned in comment on last meeting, i'm inclined to keep focus pretty strickly on topic-at-hand [22:04] and note side discussions that come up and return to them later if time. [22:04] ah, it's kenneths right now .. is that volounteering for notes, Kenneth? [22:04] good, that is needed! [22:04] Yes. [22:04] so feel free to make note of something you feel we need to come back to. [22:04] I am taking notes. [22:05] are you taking notes Lavr? ;-) [22:05] ok [22:05] a nice problem to have, question who is _not_ taking the notes [22:05] OK, there are 9 items in the Bug DB marked "patch". I don't believe some of them, but would like to review. [22:05] open items, that is [22:06] sounds good. let's go through 1 at a time [22:06] I'd appreciate it if other items could be scanned for any that *should* be "patch" but aren't [22:06] CDot could you give us quick link to that list? [22:06] ok, I'm looking at "all outstanding items" [22:06] * ArthurClemens has joined #twiki_edinburgh [22:06] http://develop.twiki.org/~develop/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/AllOutStandingItems [22:06] ta [22:07] starting at Item1672 and scrolling *upwards* [22:07] Item1672: Pattern skin updates [22:07] ArthurClemens: status check? [22:07] * bitca has joined #twiki_edinburgh [22:08] since he just joined, maybe we can give him a couple of minutes to catch up and get ready [22:08] are there live notes? [22:08] ArthurClemens: no [22:08] ok [22:09] Arthur - we just got started and are going through outstanding itmes for new release [22:09] pattern skin status [22:09] ArthurClemens: we are on all outstanding items, starting at 1672, working upwards, reviewing "patch" items [22:09] "open items"? [22:10] y [22:10] I am finding small bugs here and there [22:10] ArthurClemens: are you cvreating new items for them? [22:10] I see new items against pattern [22:10] if so, we should close 1672 [22:11] I will, I found some, but need to check [22:11] y [22:11] And I was starting to create a diff for Arthur [22:11] all changes have been merged [22:11] ok, I'm closing it [22:11] 1817 is next; [22:11] versioning of attachments broken: upload with manage creates new attachment [22:11] cannot be reproduced [22:12] no feedback from reporter [22:12] Discard. [22:12] done [22:12] 1820 [22:12] they can reopen if can reproduce [22:12] reproducible case of not being able to log out [22:12] Meredith? [22:13] I *think* it's reproducible. [22:13] It appears to be reproducible if you logout viewing a non-guest-vieable topic and log in again [22:13] I tried that, works ok [22:13] Bah. Sorry. wrong. let me start over [22:13] it is reproducable [22:13] but fill in the details, let's have another go at it [22:14] It appears to be reproducible if you try to edit something as TWikiGuest [22:14] can you document that please SvenDowideit? [22:14] I can reliably get a situation where i have to manually delete the cgi_session file [22:14] even better, can you fix it? [22:14] i've tried [22:14] That prompts you for a login. [22:14] ok, there is clearly a problem [22:14] I don't seem to be able to logout after that for some period of time [22:14] y [22:14] keep it open against patch, take it offline [22:14] side note: i'm trying to sort by column 7 and am getting repeated error message [22:14] That was the closest to reproducible I could get [22:15] merge? [22:15] y [22:15] 1878: translations [22:15] I reported that [22:15] I merged the documentation updates, and pattern skin os done, so is there any reason not to generate a pot and complete the translations? [22:16] nope [22:16] only minor adjustments needed, could do with a twiki-dev statement like the last time when release date is final [22:16] where's terceiros when you need him :-) [22:17] do we need to address the translators? [22:17] ArthurClemens: I guess so [22:17] chinese etc? [22:17] yep, when it's stable and deadline is set, let's ping them on their mail [22:17] Antonio mailed twiki-dev, and the translators personally [22:17] yes, action item for antonio: alert translators [22:18] can someone take responsibility for doing that *now* please? [22:18] antonio is not here, and hasn't been seen for a while [22:18] I will do it, deadline pending [22:18] so better not to rely on him [22:18] thx Steffen [22:19] ok, 1843: delRev [22:19] if you have a topic with no ,v and try to delRev it, it fails. Right, Lavr? [22:19] Yes. And the real issue is creating ,v files [22:19] When there is none [22:19] agreed [22:20] it needs a unit test (or mods to the existing test) to do this properly [22:20] and I have lost my linux box, so I can't run the tests any more [22:20] would anyone else like to step up to the plate and fix this? Is it even critical for 4.0.2? [22:21] * AndreU has joined #twiki_edinburgh [22:21] ba [22:21] kb error [22:21] i've been in that code before... [22:21] If someone can fix it - it should go in. But we can ship with this bug unfixed. [22:21] no ,v file is a special case, i do not see an issue if we drop that from 4.0.2 [22:21] ok; thanks [22:22] lets do that, tag it as "minor" so it goes out soonest after the patch [22:22] sounds good [22:22] ok, 1855 is next [22:22] OK with me [22:22] I haven't read it yet, but I think it can be dropped ;-) [22:23] can anyone confirm it? [22:23] Headline is CommentPlugin doenss't expand %TOPIC% [22:23] I can confirm it all right; but I don;t think it';s a bug [22:23] it's a convoluted use case from Anton [22:24] Why should it? Why should it expand any variables? [22:24] leave it with me; I will negotiate with him [22:24] OK, 1803; Sven has been asked to comment [22:24] so perhaps it's really an enhancement request for CommentPlugin? [22:25] I only read the headline. CDot has the action. [22:25] i'll comment once i've got something [22:25] next :) [22:25] Lynnwood: yes, I think so [22:25] yep [22:25] let's come back to Sven [22:25] Item1858 [22:26] 1803 the issue is sorting when a field is missing in the form of some topics I guess [22:26] patternskin issues, don't know how minor or major they are [22:26] we'll come back to 1803 in a sec when Sven is ready [22:27] 1803: ok, sounds a bit like undef problems then .. would like a bite of the error log on it [22:27] 1858: There's two demo links in the report [22:27] its TablePlugin [22:27] i've added verbatim form log [22:27] t10x [22:28] regarding 1858, if it's a PatternSkin matter, perhaps we can return to it after Arthur has a sec to absorb it. [22:28] yep [22:29] damned search templates [22:29] good suggestion [22:29] really impossible [22:29] Who has action for 1803? (for minutes) [22:29] 1828: MBCS failures; reopened by SteffenPoulse, even though he is reporting a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ERROR...... ;-) [22:29] * SteffenPoulse finds a dark corner and hope he's not seen [22:29] I fixed the MBCS problem with string truncations, but this seems to be a different problem [22:30] ok, new item then - didn't see it before, haven't tried reverting 1828 to tell [22:30] could it be IE again? [22:31] I will look at 1858 [22:31] It *may* be 1828; 1828 certainly causes the generation of MBCS [22:31] regarding those "damned search templates" I saw another problem with search results page which i mentioned on irc a couple of days back. [22:31] i'll tell arthur about it later, in case its related. [22:32] pattern skin puts divs around SPLIT items [22:32] sometimes does not match [22:32] some day we really ought to get rid of those splits [22:32] but we are stuck with them for now [22:32] ok, i think we're back to Sven. do you have more on 1803? [22:33] other than noting it's TablePlugin? [22:33] i've added a log entry [22:34] heh - plp are in the code at the moment :-) [22:34] I've also noticed that _every_requet results in a log line [22:34] stat(../conf): No such file or directory at setlib.cfg line 34 [22:34] ok; how do people feel at the moment? are we confident the merges are all done correctly? should we be verifying fixes? [22:35] sven ../conf is DEVELOP only [22:35] it should not be in twiki4 [22:35] Soronthar: right? [22:35] ok, but even in develop, it is wrong [22:35] and needs correcting [22:35] right [22:35] sure; there needs to be an empty conf dir in the repository [22:35] just create the conf dir someplace [22:36] someplace= .. from bin [22:36] ok; merges? [22:36] y, and that is very very wrong [22:36] i'm not putting a conf in /use/lib/cgi-bin [22:36] when i have 4 DEVELOP based twiki's under there [22:36] SvenDowideit: Soronthar: take that off-line please, you're confusing me [22:36] ok [22:37] ok, but is not my patch :) [22:37] thanks [22:37] I'll revert it. [22:37] so are we complete with the patch list? [22:37] I would like everyone to review the open issues [22:37] is that all open items? [22:37] and seriously consider if any ought to be in patch that aren't [22:37] Lynnwood: yes [22:38] ah, a quick scan on them? [22:38] I went briefly through them this afternoon. Lots of them but none I would want to fight for tonight. The only one I found was changed to patch and we discussed it. [22:38] I don't want to miss anything that turns out to be really important [22:38] Lavr: that's good enough for me [22:38] I have also reviewed [22:38] great - then sounds like we're covered. thanks! [22:39] test-test-test .. will help catching the ones that isn't in yet [22:39] SteffenPoulse: aye, and any merges we missed, I hpe [22:39] quick check on other sub-topics to cover under release discussion [22:39] I think power testing is the name of the game. Especially try the default plugin features [22:39] one note on merges, first, please [22:39] go ahead [22:40] I merged 1611, but the list of checkins was quite big [22:40] I don;t know if I caught all the changes [22:40] I merged the TWiki dir [22:40] but there may have been other changes [22:40] I'll check that one out as well, action item for me [22:40] PeterThoeny: you made most of the checkins; were there any outside data/TWiki? [22:40] very possibly in the Main web, yes [22:40] 1611 = Generic doc work for TWiki 4.0.2 [22:40] or even in an extension [22:40] * wbniv has joined #twiki_edinburgh [22:41] extensions were alll force-merged [22:41] hi guys, sorry i'm late [22:41] so extensions should be OK [22:41] it would help to know if any were in Main, though [22:41] i can't recall, possibly in other webs too (if change to one of the Web* topics for example) [22:41] I can't check myself, because my mail log is on my Linux box, which is dead [22:42] let me check [22:42] thanks [22:42] ok - so Peter, will you also be merging those? [22:42] ok, all agreed then, wbniv to fix remaining bugs and release by the end of the week? [22:43] on top of all the other stuff we assigned him before he arrived?! [22:43] Sounds good [22:43] 1.5 day for me left [22:43] haha [22:43] i already checked the topic :) [22:43] so I hope to fix the pattern bugs [22:43] no, my system is not setup yet for merging, i'd appreciate if someone could do that [22:43] So you can communicate it to CDot? [22:44] what else do we need to discuss under 4.0.2? [22:45] release notes [22:45] 1611: r8830 was TWiki.cfg else it looks ok [22:45] I propose to generate release notes from the "Releaseable" tab in Bugs web, if people think that makes sense [22:45] and reconfirm target of Mar 20 [22:45] Has all the closed been changed to Waiting for Release? [22:45] Mar 20 for release? [22:46] Lavr: yes, I changed them all [22:46] ok, i checked on 1611: [22:46] - pub dir of TWiki web [22:46] - EmptyPlugin [22:46] - twiki/branches/DEVELOP/lib/TWiki.cfg - r8830 [22:46] i got that from the meeting topic. guess it had been discussed before. [22:46] * MichaelDaum_ has joined #twiki_edinburgh [22:46] that is besides TWiki web [22:47] Lynnwood: yes, I recall now. [22:47] ok, thanks Peter. Don;t you have TortoiseSVN? It's pretty good for mergeing [22:47] (btw, i moved EmptyPlugin from lib/ (etc) to twikiplugins/EmptyPlugin, if that affects anything) [22:47] 1 week from today [22:47] * MichaelDaum has quit IRC (Nick collision from services.) [22:47] * MichaelDaum_ is now known as MichaelDaum [22:47] Lynnwood: it depends on testing [22:47] but it is a reasonable target [22:48] do we need some notes on testing needs here? [22:48] Lavr: ? You are our testing guru; what do you think? [22:48] or test tasks that could be checked off? [22:49] I did think of getting people to verify fixes [22:49] crawford: i do all my dev on unix [22:49] It is important that we all try to confirm that the bugs are really closed. [22:49] there are 47 distinct fixes [22:49] PeterThoeny: k. since I have been forced onto Windies, I have founf Tortoise to be very good for merging [22:49] At least my merlin.lavrsen.dk is available for any sort of abuse. I have copied the Motion web so you can try web apps and break them to pieces. [22:50] everybody should massage pattern skin all the way around .. click _everything_ .. just clicking "jump" and "search" tonight revealed two issues with rendering, attachments have taken a few items, others are there [22:50] I also plan to change my Motion web now to TWiki4. That gives extra test exposure. [22:50] I'm more worried about some of the deeper functional changes, myself [22:51] where should we report those issues? [22:51] Lynnwood: open new items, please [22:51] ok [22:51] mark them "patch" [22:51] and set them "Urgent" [22:51] i do the little one i observed the other day [22:52] remember, we only have Arthur for a short while [22:52] I guess testint Pattern is most urgent since Arthur is going on vacation. [22:52] so we have to find bugs for him to take on holiday ;-) [22:52] they go hand in hand .. good way to find the functional issues is finding GUI-peculiarities :-) [22:52] what CDot and Lavr said :) [22:52] anything else on 4.0.2? [22:52] not from me [22:52] who is building it? [22:52] I can't I'm afraid [22:53] (computer challenged) [22:53] i'm doing it [22:53] nice one! [22:53] as i've done the last ones [22:53] thanks [22:53] thank you sven! [22:53] CDot: Would a unix login be helpful to you? [22:53] SteffenPoulse: no, I've got lots of those [22:53] I need a box, a screen, and xemacs ;-) [22:53] Sven - what would be your deadline for any merges? [22:53] and my entire dev environment [22:55] well, you can have a login if you need one anytime (100mbit enabled; doesn't make X run smoothly though, I know) ... [22:55] sven can speak up on any needs for help he needs [22:55] my deadline would be a few testing days before you want to release [22:55] 2? [22:55] thats mid weekend? [22:56] can we release not on 20 but on 22 or 23? [22:56] or maybe Friday night? [22:56] to let folks work on weekend if needed? [22:56] (don't like releases on monday) [22:56] ok [22:56] yep [22:56] ok, we aim for friday [22:56] this fri? [22:56] for code finish [22:56] y [22:56] so hurry hurry [22:56] did you hear that Sven. request for the weekend and push release back 2 days [22:57] yep [22:57] weekend to work [22:57] oh [22:57] SvenDowideit: I'm fine with that [22:57] no [22:57] i'm requesting to actually _have_ a weekend [22:57] ok. you da man [22:57] just depends on testing [22:57] zactly [22:57] well this way you would - and would not start on release until monday [22:57] when are you back again, Arthur? [22:57] and reproducing that logout bug [22:58] unless i hear other comments, we'll be going with Sven's friday deadline for merges [22:58] ok, declaration: merges should try to be finished by friday, i'll start working on the releease build monday, with a tentative desire to release wednesday [22:59] Can we clarify the dates please [22:59] sunday night (late) [22:59] all dates can be interpreted as UCT [22:59] good. thanks again Sven [23:00] ArthurClemens: ok [23:00] shall we move to "Doc Status [23:00] ? [23:00] hang on a mo; merges are complete, apart from 1611 which is doc only [23:00] yep [23:00] i thought friday was an easy target [23:01] and sounds like there is not much left with 1611 [23:01] ok. thought I'd missed something there. [23:01] So code changes by this Friday the 17th. [23:01] aye [23:01] And release Sunday the 19th? [23:01] up to sven [23:01] release wed [23:01] k [23:01] time between are for testing [23:02] well, with arthur out of town, Sunday is ambitious .. [23:02] i'm sure we can handle _some_ PatternSkin fixes [23:02] monday won't make a difference [23:02] pheew - I wasn't :-) [23:02] nope, we need next Friday or similar [23:03] well, I'm only one vote .. if you think wed then wed it is [23:03] next issue [23:03] Actual bugs can move things any time if they are severe. DO we have a release meeting? [23:03] there's not much piont debating a tentative date [23:04] yes [23:04] Proposal for date of this meeting? Monday at 21:00 UTC? [23:04] aye [23:04] same time, next week y [23:04] release meeting in 7 days, same time [23:04] GMT == UTC ? [23:05] yes [23:05] nope, there are at least 2 letters different [23:05] There are some nanoseconds between them [23:05] sorry - i was taken away for a sec [23:05] oki doki, then :-) .. UTC have daylight saving? [23:05] No UTC = GMT for all practical purposes [23:06] ok - ready for Doc Status? [23:06] ok [23:06] ok [23:06] i put it on the agenda be cause it was suggested [23:07] but i do not know by who and on what docs [23:07] can anyone comment? [23:07] therefore no desired outcome stated [23:07] if not, let's table for now and proceed to next. [23:07] bitca? [23:08] Yes? [23:08] IIRC, doc was proposed by Crawford [23:08] * SteffenPoulse is now known as SteffenPoulsen [23:08] huh? [23:08] doc status [23:08] I think they mean Doc web status [23:09]